Mike the Usurper wrote:

dc0de wrote:

Mike the Usurper wrote:

dc0de wrote:

Obama, who warned again that the economy would likely get worse before it got better, declined to put a price tag on the two-year stimulus proposal which other Democrats have estimated at hundreds of billions of dollars.null

Oh yes, let's spend, spend, spend to make the economy stable. Yes, that's what we need to do...

Is this the same man who stood up and said that the spending of the last 4 years was out of control?

Funny, now he's ready to do the exact same.

Who'd'a thunk that he'd do that?

(hint: I did.)

Hint, what the money is spent on matters.

Spending $1000/man/day at Blackwater for "security" following Katrina? Not useful. Spending millions on trailers so contaminated with formaldehyde that their use as shelters for people displaced by Katrina is voided? Not useful. Not spending money on FDA food testing leading to the decimation of the tomato, spinach and pepper markets because of salmonella which is detectable? Not useful. None of those do anything but cause more money to be spent because it was spent stupidly the first time.

Spending money expanding power and transportation infrastructure in sustainable ways? Useful. Spending money modernizing the power grid to prevent a rerun of the northeast blackout of 2003? Useful. Spending money to get the currently in trouble US auto industry retooled away from increased foreign oil consumption? Useful. Those would all be forward looking things that deal with issues we know are in or coming down the pipe, and provide money to put food on the table in the here and now.

Obama is right, the spending of the last 8 years was completely out of control. When the economy goes completely in the crapper, and it has, the solution is not to stop spending, but change the spending into things that make a difference over the long term, while providing short term help so people can continue to eat.

The current bunch has handed well over $100 billion to AIG, is in the process of handing Citibank God only knows how much, proposed this morning another $800 billion to buy up bad credit card and student loans, another $600 billion to deal with bad debt at Fannie/Freddie, and has already spent close to $300 billion of the $700 billion authorized in the general bailout on no one knows what because they aren't saying. That is completely insane.

It's 1929 again (who said that a year ago? Hint: I did), and you appear to be advocating a return to Herbert Hoover's policies. If my grandmother were still alive she'd get out the rug beater, take you out back of the smokehouse and see if she could knock the dirt out of your head for making that suggestion.

My point (which was obviously missed), is this:

1) If the current regime aske... [ Read More (0.4k in body) ]

RE: Obama costly stimulus needed to jolt U.S. economy | U.S. | Reuters

Obama, who warned again that the economy would likely get worse before it got better, declined to put a price tag on the two-year stimulus proposal which other Democrats have estimated at hundreds of billions of dollars.null

Oh yes, let's spend, spend, spend to make the economy stable. Yes, that's what we need to do...

Is this the same man who stood up and said that the spending of the last 4 years was out of control?

Funny, now he's ready to do the exact same.

Who'd'a thunk that he'd do that?

(hint: I did.)

Obama costly stimulus needed to jolt U.S. economy | U.S. | Reuters

flynn23 wrote:

dc0de wrote:

flynn23 wrote:

It's not 1979. Go to any Big 3 dealership and look at the products. They are well made, cost competitive, and come with stellar service intervals and maintenance packages. You can hardly get a better value these days.

Perhaps, if you want a vehicle that doesn't get good gas mileage.

This is bullshit. The average engine size in the US is 3.2L, and in Europe it's 2.0L.

That is due to the marketing, the hype, and the lack of efficient choices by the big 3. They sell vehicles that are crap, that "look" pretty... and fall apart in 3-5 years. I'm still driving a 1994 Toyota Camry 2dr, that get's 33MPG. That's on my daily commute, not just hwy miles.

I had a big 3 dealership last year tell me that I needed a new car, because, "Your Camry doesn't have any warranty, and can't be that efficient." And they wanted to sell me a vehicle that got 24/28mpg for 19K.

Sorry, the Big 3 have been screwing the American people for FAR too long. Let them fail. Good Riddance.

Wrong.

For one, engine size is not a good determinant of fuel efficiency. If it was, then diesel engines on ships would never get out of the harbor.

Add to that the fact that European drivers are completely different consumer types than Americans. Driving is for the well to do in Europe. And given that the whole of Europe could fit into America, well... do the math. The products here need to tackle city commutes and take the family on vacation for 4000 miles. And look good doing it. That's a difficult balance to strike.

Detroit makes the cars that people want. Not all people. But they're not making stuff that people don't want. The proof is in the pudding. They sell more cars than foreign marques. Not just globally, but domestically. They don't go in some high rise board room and decide to sell powerful engines that get 20mpg in a "pretty" package because that's what they think will sell. They spend YEARS on market research and focus groups. In fact, one of the biggest problems is that the product development cycle is too long. Takes too much market research into consideration, which is why you get things like the Aztek or the Lincoln pick up. But you also get the Hemi back, the Jeep Liberty, and the return of the Charger and the Challenger (both of which get 25mpg+). The market tells them what they want, and they deliver. The Hemi engine's power efficiency is moot with today's engine designs. But it was the most successful engine branding campaign ever and that's why Chrysler sells a lot of Hemi's. The market WANTS it.

You're also forgetting that General Motors resurrected the electric car with the EV1, and proved that there was a marketplace for it, despite California's emission rules being dropped. If anything, the government screwed GM by telling them that 10% of all cars sold would have to b... [ Read More (0.6k in body) ]

RE: Show Of Hands

flynn23 wrote:

dc0de wrote:

Hijexx wrote:

How many of the automaker CEOs (and by the way, that includes Gettlefinger, if my viewing of the hearings is correct) travelled commercial to get to Congress yesterday and today?

Zero.

.....

All three CEOs - Rick Wagoner of GM, Alan Mulally of Ford, and Robert Nardelli of Chrysler - exercised their perks Tuesday by flying in corporate jets to DC. Wagoner flew in GM's $36 million luxury aircraft to tell members of Congress that the company is burning through cash, asking for $10-12 billion for GM alone.

.....

GM and Ford say that it is a corporate decision to have their CEOs fly on private jets and that is non-negotiable, even as the companies say they are running out of cash.

.....

Fine.

As a US Taxpayer this is my answer to your request for a bailout:

Is that clear enough or do you need it spelled out one letter at a time?

I agree entirely. Not only no, but HELL NO!

Build some cars that we WANT, not the crap that you've been pushing on us for the past 30 years.

My parents purchased a brand new 1979/80 Subaru DL sedan that provided 38mpg city and 44 hwy. It was a decent car, and my mother drove it until sometime in the mid 90's, when she traded it in. It burned regular and unleaded fuel, was a standard transmission, and seated the entire family comfortably, with a trunk that could hold a good days' shopping. (It was about a 4 on the "gambino" scale - meaning you could get four dead bodies in the trunk)

Tell me, how is it that the US car makers cannot provide an automobile that was present for us over 20 years ago.

How does that work?

It's not 1979. Go to any Big 3 dealership and look at the products. They are well made, cost competitive, and come with stellar service intervals and maintenance packages. You can hardly get a better value these days.

Perhaps, if you want a vehicle that doesn't get good gas mileage.

This is bullshit. The average engine size in the US is 3.2L, and in Europe it's 2.0L.

That is due to the marketing, the hype, and the lack of efficient choices by the big 3. They sell vehicles that are crap, that "look" pretty... and fall apart in 3-5 years. I'm still driving a 1994 Toyota Camry 2dr, that get's 33MPG. That's on my daily commute, not just hwy miles.

I had a big 3 dealership last year tell me that I needed a new car, because, "Your Camry doesn't have any warranty, and can't be that efficient." And they wanted to sell me a vehicle that got 24/28mpg for 19K.

Sorry, the Big 3 have been screwing the American people for FAR too long. Let them fail. Good Riddance.

RE: Show Of Hands

SAY NO! to a bailout of the automakers.

They've been making 40+ mpg cars for years, in their european market. They are responsible for our "SUV" nation, they've been in bed with big oil for years, and now they want us to pay them MORE?

Please.

I filled my tank for $1.75/gal today, and I really don't see how the automakers can fly into DC on private jets, and ask for alms.

Tell your representatives NO to a bailout.

Obama asks Bush to provide help for automakers - International Herald Tribune

Way TOO cool!

(btw - I want...)

Secret Rocket Balls Target WMD Bunkers | Danger Room from Wired.com

This strip shows exactly why I don't trust Obama...

Why I don't trust Obama

"Twitter has also become a social activism tool for socialists, human rights groups, communists, vegetarians, anarchists, religious communities, atheists, political enthusiasts, hacktivists and others to communicate with each other and to send messages to broader audiences," the report said.

because GOD KNOWS, they'd never use GPG/Email/SMS or Cell phones...

Twitter is already used by some members to post and/or support extremist ideologies and perspectives. Extremist and terrorist use of Twitter could evolve over time to reflect tactics that are already evolving in use by hacktivists and activists for surveillance. This could theoretically be combined with targeting.

Don't forget, those of us who use it to keep up with each other must be terrorists too!

I guess we need to have some encryption for Twitter now...

Anyone?

U.S. Army warns of twittering terrorists | Latest Security News - CNET News

Ok, this is just too stupid NOT to share...

Cops: Man tries to pay for meal with pot - Criminal weirdness- msnbc.com

Well, let's not have any shenanigans like we did in past years!

I hope that everyone has a great time. Sorry I won't be there.

NO THROWING CHAIRS OFF THE ROOF! | dc0de's notes...