adam wrote:

Former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has been executed by hanging at a secure facility in northern Baghdad for crimes against humanity.

I completely oppose the death penalty even for Saddam

Would you rather that we spend inordinate resources guarding and imprisoning him? Is this the best use for humanity of these resources? Always with the threat that he may escape or worse, that his rantings might incite a movement in his name? Would you have supported keeping Hitler alive? Stalin?

flynn23 wrote:

adam wrote:

Former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has been executed by hanging at a secure facility in northern Baghdad for crimes against humanity.

I completely oppose the death penalty even for Saddam

Would you rather that we spend inordinate resources guarding and imprisoning him? Is this the best use for humanity of these resources? Always with the threat that he may escape or worse, that his rantings might incite a movement in his name? Would you have supported keeping Hitler alive? Stalin?

The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
'Tis mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown;
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God's
When mercy seasons justice.

in short yes, even Hitler and Stalin, in supplication to a higher notion of morality
i do not believe the correct punishment for taking human life is to take human life
i believe we should display a higher reverence for human life than the killer (any killer)

adam wrote:

flynn23 wrote:

adam wrote:

Former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has been executed by hanging at a secure facility in northern Baghdad for crimes against humanity.

I completely oppose the death penalty even for Saddam

Would you rather that we spend inordinate resources guarding and imprisoning him? Is this the best use for humanity of these resources? Always with the threat that he may escape or worse, that his rantings might incite a movement in his name? Would you have supported keeping Hitler alive? Stalin?

in short yes, even Hitler and Stalin, in supplication to a higher notion of morality
i do not believe the correct punishment for taking human life is to take human life
i believe we should display a higher reverence for human life than the killer (any killer)

I think that's a quaint notion that I wish I could support. But given the society that we live in, where enlightenment is at best a verb instead of an adjective, I think it's impractical for such a situation. Maybe if we spent more on education and less on the war on drugs we might be able to progress to a place where murder was all but eliminated. But I doubt it. I understand Decius' feelings but this guy deserved to die. How he was nabbed and brought to justice is another crime unto itself, but that's a different story.

You may also note that countries that still support the death penalty have far less violent crime. And some countries which abolished it have gone back to supporting it due to a rise in violent crime. Contrast this with rich nations that don't support the death penalty, which have less violent crime than the US per capita, but have just as much larceny and other minor crimes per capita. People do think twice about committing crime if they know that they will be swiftly and appropriately punished. One of the failings of our justice system is that it is neither swift nor appropriate and people know this. Hell, some of the criminals that I know of were HAPPY to go to prison because it was a better situation than the one they were living outside. Three square meals, a roof over your head, and a free education. Not bad.

But the biggest reason why I would support Saddam's execution is that this is saving far more lives than taking. Even if we hadn't done a pre-emptive military campaign to remove Saddam from power, and just did our usual CIA toppling from the inside, there would most likely be sectarian violence in Iraq. Just like there was in Latin America in the 80's when we tried it there and Indo-China when we tried it there in the 60's and 70's. It's arguable which approach has the smaller death toll or which is more 'effective' for regime change, but it's obvious which one is less costly in terms of resources and political capital.

flynn23 wrote:

adam wrote:

flynn23 wrote:

adam wrote:

Former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has been executed by hanging at a secure facility in northern Baghdad for crimes against humanity.

I completely oppose the death penalty even for Saddam

Would you rather that we spend inordinate resources guarding and imprisoning him? Is this the best use for humanity of these resources? Always with the threat that he may escape or worse, that his rantings might incite a movement in his name? Would you have supported keeping Hitler alive? Stalin?

in short yes, even Hitler and Stalin, in supplication to a higher notion of morality
i do not believe the correct punishment for taking human life is to take human life
i believe we should display a higher reverence for human life than the killer (any killer)

I think that's a quaint notion that I wish I could support. But given the society that we live in, where enlightenment is at best a verb instead of an adjective, I think it's impractical for such a situation. Maybe if we spent more on education and less on the war on drugs we might be able to progress to a place where murder was all but eliminated. But I doubt it. I understand Decius' feelings but this guy deserved to die. How he was nabbed and brought to justice is another crime unto itself, but that's a different story.

You may also note that countries that still support the death penalty have far less violent crime. And some countries which abolished it have gone back to supporting it due to a rise in violent crime. Contrast this with rich nations that don't support the death penalty, which have less violent crime than the US per capita, but have just as much larceny and other minor crimes per capita. People do think twice about committing crime if they know that they will be swiftly and appropriately punished. One of the failings of our justice system is that it is neither swift nor appropriate and people know this. Hell, some of the criminals that I know of were HAPPY to go to prison because it was a better situation than the one they were living outside. Three square meals, a roof over your head, and a free education. Not bad.

But the biggest reason why I would support Saddam's execution is that this is saving far more lives than taking. Even if we hadn't done a pre-emptive military campaign to remove Saddam from power, and just did our usual CIA toppling from the inside, there would most likely be sectarian violence in Iraq. Just like there was in Latin America in the 80's when we tried it there and Indo-China when we tried it there in the 60's and 70's. It's arguable which approach has the smaller death toll or which is more 'effective' for regime change, but it's obvious which one is less costly in terms of resources and political capital.

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flynn23 wrote:

adam wrote:

Former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has been executed by hanging at a secure facility in northern Baghdad for crimes against humanity.

I completely oppose the death penalty even for Saddam

Would you rather that we spend inordinate resources guarding and imprisoning him? Is this the best use for humanity of these resources? Always with the threat that he may escape or worse, that his rantings might incite a movement in his name? Would you have supported keeping Hitler alive? Stalin?

I'm a bit shocked by my own emotional reaction to this. I'm not happy about it. Perhaps thats because Saddam's abuses are too abstract for me. If this was Bin Lauden I might feel differently, but perhaps for the wrong reasons. I also might feel differently if I felt this was a ray of hope for Iraq, but it seems just another body on an ever growing pile.

I don't think the Iraqi government implements the death penalty because of a need to make efficient use of resources. I think they implement it because they want to put fear into their subjects. Killing this guy is a demonstration of their power. In an environment already filled with so much chaos, perhaps its a bit academic to talk about the death penalty... Obviously we can't fault them for doing it in Iraq if we think its nessecary in Texas. The execution of an internationally notorious figure does cause one to reflect on the issue, but the debate is in Houston and not Bagdad.