flynn23 wrote: adam wrote: flynn23 wrote: adam wrote: Former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has been executed by hanging at a secure facility in northern Baghdad for crimes against humanity.
I completely oppose the death penalty even for Saddam
Would you rather that we spend inordinate resources guarding and imprisoning him? Is this the best use for humanity of these resources? Always with the threat that he may escape or worse, that his rantings might incite a movement in his name? Would you have supported keeping Hitler alive? Stalin?
in short yes, even Hitler and Stalin, in supplication to a higher notion of morality
i do not believe the correct punishment for taking human life is to take human life
i believe we should display a higher reverence for human life than the killer (any killer)
I think that's a quaint notion that I wish I could support. But given the society that we live in, where enlightenment is at best a verb instead of an adjective, I think it's impractical for such a situation. Maybe if we spent more on education and less on the war on drugs we might be able to progress to a place where murder was all but eliminated. But I doubt it. I understand Decius' feelings but this guy deserved to die. How he was nabbed and brought to justice is another crime unto itself, but that's a different story. You may also note that countries that still support the death penalty have far less violent crime. And some countries which abolished it have gone back to supporting it due to a rise in violent crime. Contrast this with rich nations that don't support the death penalty, which have less violent crime than the US per capita, but have just as much larceny and other minor crimes per capita. People do think twice about committing crime if they know that they will be swiftly and appropriately punished. One of the failings of our justice system is that it is neither swift nor appropriate and people know this. Hell, some of the criminals that I know of were HAPPY to go to prison because it was a better situation than the one they were living outside. Three square meals, a roof over your head, and a free education. Not bad. But the biggest reason why I would support Saddam's execution is that this is saving far more lives than taking. Even if we hadn't done a pre-emptive military campaign to remove Saddam from power, and just did our usual CIA toppling from the inside, there would most likely be sectarian violence in Iraq. Just like there was in Latin America in the 80's when we tried it there and Indo-China when we tried it there in the 60's and 70's. It's arguable which approach has the smaller death toll or which is more 'effective' for regime change, but it's obvious which one is less costly in terms of resources and political capital.
that post made me laugh
i'm english so frankly it's the society you live in not mine. We in Britain have a considerablely more peaceful society and haven't had the death penalty since i was born in the late 60s.(edit received opinion - show me evidence) You may also note that countries that still support the death penalty have far less violent crime.
i would be very interested to see your evidence for that assertion as in europe America is considered one the the most violent societies in the west (although that is received opinion and so I would be interested to see evidence to the contary). The general european opinion is that the American position on capital punishment is barbaric at best. One of the failings of our justice system is that it is neither swift nor appropriate and people know this.
fuck it kill them all
line them up against the wall
or better yet torture them first
make them pay
blood blood we want blood
fuck due process
fuck the niggers
hang 'em
lynch 'em is that your world?
don't be poor or black or both in America
O brave new world ps Even if we hadn't done a pre-emptive military campaign to remove Saddam from power, and just did our usual CIA toppling from the inside, there would most likely be sectarian violence in Iraq.
you call it a "pre-emptive military campaign" I call it a war of aggresion -- a crime for which we hung people at Nuremburg
but that aside what? sorry slightly non plused ok by what right do you engineer regime change? "less costly" ? to who?
how do you know what might have happened if America (Bush) had taken another route? this is saving far more lives than taking
can I borrow your alternative reality simulator because I don't know a way of measuring that
i'm intrigued that you can measure the consequences of executing and not executing him -- great diagnostic tool in your paragraph you concaternate 2 things both of which i opposed then and now
you suggest the execution is justified because the invasion was justified adam - slightly drunk after the pub at 2-15am GMT and rather cross being slightly offensive but "nuts", as the man at Bastoigne said. edit 11-15 GMT
I would like to formally and publically apologise to flynn23
this post is too personal and too vicious and while heartfelt is not I believe expressed in a mode condussive to civilised discourse.
It lowers the tone rather than raising it and displays shocking bad manners. So I hope flynn23 will accept my apology. RE: BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Saddam Hussein executed in Iraq | 
