Acidus wrote:
] ] But CrimeThinc continued to ask attendees to deface the
] ] Republican National Committee Web sites, to launch denial
] ] of service attacks against their servers, to harass
] ] delegates in the street, to prevent buses carrying
] ] delegates from running, and so on. "By any means
] ] necessary," he said.
]
] This is not hacking, this isn't protesting, this is anarchy,
] and these jackasses deserve the brutality they get.

I agree, its one thing to protest, its something entirely different to try to fight for your rights, like free assembly, and free speech by denying people at the RNC those exact same rights...

as far as I'm conserned if your free assembly and free speech turns into anarchy designed to limit the free speech and free assembly of others then you are not helping the fight for freedom...

the real thing these people are fighting for isn't freedom, they have it, and they would have republicans striped of those same freedoms because they dont agree with republican politics...no what they're really after is a totalitarian society that they themselves control, where they can deside who has rights and who doesnt...

we dont live in that society yet, and until we do these people have no place telling the republicans, or anyone for that matter which rights they have, and which rights they have to give up...

people like CrimeThinc and Shapeshifter (from HOPE 5) often like to describe the current administration (or anyone they disagree with really) by bringing up Orwell and 1984...Orwell wrote lots of things, almost all in one way or another related to totalitarianism, nationalism, etc...when I hear the tired BS retoric of these guys using the bannor of peace and freedom to make their case I think of something else that Orwell wrote in "Notes on Nationalism" in May 1945...I'll post a link to the full document to my memestream but for now this section sums up these guys pretty well for me...

--snip--

"5. PACIFISM The majority of pacifists either belong to obscure religious sects or are simply humanitarians who object to the taking of life and prefer not to follow their thoughts beyond that point. But there is a minority of intellectual pacifists whose real though unadmitted motive appears to be hatred of western democracy and admiration of totalitarianism. Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writings of younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States. Moreover they do not as a rule condemn violence as such, but only violence used in defense of western countries. The Russians, unlike the British, are not blamed for defending themselves by warlike means, and indeed all pacifist propaganda of this type avoids mention of Russia or China. ... [ Read More (0.2k in body) ]

abaddon wrote:
] Acidus wrote:
] ] ] But CrimeThinc continued to ask attendees to deface the
] ] ] Republican National Committee Web sites, to launch denial
] ] ] of service attacks against their servers, to harass
] ] ] delegates in the street, to prevent buses carrying
] ] ] delegates from running, and so on. "By any means
] ] ] necessary," he said.
] ]
] ] This is not hacking, this isn't protesting, this is anarchy,
] ] and these jackasses deserve the brutality they get.
]
] I agree, its one thing to protest, its something entirely
] different to try to fight for your rights, like free assembly,
] and free speech by denying people at the RNC those exact same
] rights...
]
] as far as I'm conserned if your free assembly and free speech
] turns into anarchy designed to limit the free speech and free
] assembly of others then you are not helping the fight for
] freedom...
]
] the real thing these people are fighting for isn't freedom,
] they have it, and they would have republicans striped of those
] same freedoms because they dont agree with republican
] politics...no what they're really after is a totalitarian
] society that they themselves control, where they can deside
] who has rights and who doesnt...
]
] we dont live in that society yet, and until we do these people
] have no place telling the republicans, or anyone for that
] matter which rights they have, and which rights they have to
] give up...
  . . .
] --Abaddon

(applauds!) Well said, Abaddon. :)

Acidus wrote:
] ] But CrimeThinc continued to ask attendees to deface the
] ] Republican National Committee Web sites, to launch denial
] ] of service attacks against their servers, to harass
] ] delegates in the street, to prevent buses carrying
] ] delegates from running, and so on. "By any means
] ] necessary," he said.
]
] Add another name to the list of "Hacktivist" dumbasses.
]
] This is not hacking, this isn't protesting, this is anarchy,
] and these jackasses deserve the brutality they get.
]
] And for godsake stop using the term "Hacktivism!" First of all
] it sounds retarded, it poisons the public's prespective of
] hackers, and generally confuses everyone.
]
] Yeah CrimeThinc and Shapeshifter, you really "fight the man"
] when you stick a banana in the tailpipe of a bus.
] Whoopity-fucking-do.
]
] These are those people you just wish would get the hell off
] your side.
]
] And they gave this guy a speaking role? At Defon? WTF?

Why not. Not everyone is a candy ass liberal. Some people take action. I guess if they aren't using a keyboard to do it, then they aren't appreciated in this elitist sect.

] Why not. Not everyone is a candy ass liberal. Some people
] take action. I guess if they aren't using a keyboard to do
] it, then they aren't appreciated in this elitist sect.

Vile, you are correct! A talk that in no way involves hacking (ie a creative/cool solution to a problem) doesn't have any business at Defcon. Period.

And no, discovering a new way to shout "Facist pig!" while torching a car isn't a creative/cool solution to a problem

Acidus wrote:
] ] Why not. Not everyone is a candy ass liberal. Some people
] ] take action. I guess if they aren't using a keyboard to do
] ] it, then they aren't appreciated in this elitist sect.
]
] Vile, you are correct! A talk that in no way involves hacking
] (ie a creative/cool solution to a problem) doesn't have any
] business at Defcon. Period.
]
] And no, discovering a new way to shout "Facist pig!" while
] torching a car isn't a creative/cool solution to a problem

In your opinion. By the way, do you remember hearing anything about the Boston Tea Party? It may not be as important as stealing music digitally, but the event had some significance. No one accomplished anything by preaching to the converted or sitting on their ass. If you don't want to take action, then sit there silent, like a lamb being led to slaughter. The establishment will appreciate your complacency. hacking, by definition is not a creative/cool solution to a problem. In fact, most solutions aren't very cool. They are practical at best, useless at worst. At least these folks got you hackerpussies' panties all up in a bunch. Here's to pissing off the cyber-establishment! You are more fun to challenge than Dubya himself! Get over yourselves.

] By the way, do you remember hearing anything
] about the Boston Tea Party? It may not be as important as
] stealing music digitally, but the event had some significance.

The Boston Tea party didn't deprive other's of the rights the Bostonians were advocating. This guy was preaching the disruption other's right to free speech, because he doesn't agree with what the Republicans are saying. Your allusion to doesn't support your point at all, and shows that you throw historic references without understanding their significance.

As for sitting quietly by, I would counter most of those who want change are smart enough to know that ranting about, claims, and calls for action, with little or no justification causes you to be written off as a dumbass, and your valid points are lost in all your hot air.

If all you want to do is piss off the establishment, and get people's panties in a bunch, then good luck getting anything of substance done. All it seems to do is fill this thread and my Memebox with pointless posts and boring arguments.

Acidus wrote:
] ] By the way, do you remember hearing anything
] ] about the Boston Tea Party? It may not be as important as
] ] stealing music digitally, but the event had some
] significance.
]
] The Boston Tea party didn't depriving other's of the rights
] the Bostonians were advocating. This guy was preaching the
] disruption other's right to free speech, because he doesn't
] agree with what the Republicans are saying. Your allusion to
] doesn't support your point at all, and shows that you throw
] historic references without understanding their significance.
]
] As for sitting quietly by, I would counter most of those who
] want change are smart enough to know that ranting about,
] claims, and calls for action, with little or no justification
] causes you to be written off as a dumbass, and your valid
] points are lost in all your hot air.
]
] If all you want to do is piss off the establishment, and
] get people's panties in a bunch, then good luck getting
] anything of substance done. All it seems to do is fill this
] thread and my Memebox with pointless posts and boring
] arguments.

Your initial argument was boring and pointless...and infuriating, considering what a santimonious wimp you are.