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Cultures collide in diverse Hamtramck
by Decius at 4:24 pm EDT, Apr 26, 2004 |
] From her front porch, Alice Dembowski has watched her
] city change, one tidy house at a time.
]
] "Chinese, Polish, Bosnian, Polish, Bengali,"
] she recites, her finger moving down the block. "They
] were all Polish at one time."
]
] "I've made friends. I go to their weddings.
] (But) we're losing our tradition and I'm
] getting mad," Dembowski said. "If they're going to live in
] America, why can't they be more American?"
]
] Next month, Hamtramck will become one of the few cities
] in the United States where the Islamic call to prayer is
] broadcast onto public streets. The impact of that
] decision is reverberating across the nation. That woman's statement is humerous in its obvious ignorance. This is a 4 minute thing that they blast 5 times a day. There is a sample on this site. For the most part I think its cool. I wouldn't mind it especially in an urban area. But, of course, I mostly like it because its alien. Others will hate it for the same reason. I think the critical question is, at dawn? If this thing is loud enough to wake people up its a no go. I strongly support your right to blast islamic rites (or heavy metal for that matter) as long as you're not interfering with other people's sleep. Community standards must factor in here. Obviously I couldn't set up a heavy metal loud speaker that played megadeth for 4 minutes five times a day. The only way to draw the line between this and that is to ask what the community is comfortable with, regardless of what you think of the community's reasons for choosing to be comfortable or uncomfortable with it. I don't see any way around that conceptually. In general I think its a good thing to promote the notion that in the west Islam is acceptable. In the East they might ask if other cultures are similarly accepted. (Of course, there is always the story about the Orb concert where they took a record of this thing and cut it into their mix because they thought it sounded cool and ended up getting their show shut down because there were Islamic people in the audience who got offended...) |
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RE: Cultures collide in diverse Hamtramck
by flynn23 at 11:42 am EDT, Apr 27, 2004 |
Decius wrote: ] This is a 4 minute thing that they blast 5 times a day. There
] is a sample on this site. For the most part I think its cool.
] I wouldn't mind it especially in an urban area. But, of
] course, I mostly like it because its alien. Others will hate
] it for the same reason.
]
] I think the critical question is, at dawn? If this thing is
] loud enough to wake people up its a no go. I strongly support
] your right to blast islamic rites (or heavy metal for that
] matter) as long as you're not interfering with other people's
] sleep.
]
] Community standards must factor in here. Obviously I couldn't
] set up a heavy metal loud speaker that played megadeth for 4
] minutes five times a day. The only way to draw the line
] between this and that is to ask what the community is
] comfortable with, regardless of what you think of the
] community's reasons for choosing to be comfortable or
] uncomfortable with it. I don't see any way around that
] conceptually. The key dynamic here is that the community 'standard' is rapidly changing, and from one extreme to another. Hamtramck has been the staunch base of Poles in the West for more than 80 years. If you know anything about Polish culture, you realize that there are several key factors that make an incursion of Islam pretty uncomfortable. For one, Poles, in general, are died in the wool Roman Catholic. There is a reason why the Pope is Polish. And their belief systems are ingrained and strong. The Church is interwoven in Polish society like drugs are in raver culture. There is no distinction. Two, most of the muslims that have settled in the area are Bosnians. That's to say they are Eastern European. If you know anything about the Bosnian conflict during the 90s, you'll realize that it was genocide on the order of the Nazis. The only difference was that it was muslims getting slaughtered by 'christians' (primarily Catholics). This was the whole reason why no one gave a shit and the US had to itervene (admittedly too late). Even the Middle Eastern muslims dislike the Eastern European muslims. They are considered half-breeds. Having their presence in a highly concentrated Polish community is irritating to say the least. This is exacerbated because most of the true Poles that are left are elderly, and they're not too open to 'change' or 'new ideas' if you know what I mean. My Babci (Polish for Grandmother), lives on Poland Street in Hamtramck and has for nearly 60 years. She still uses the word 'nigger', despite the fact that her physician is a black man. These are salt of the earth people. And three, Hamtramck, maybe because of its highly Eastern European makeup, or in spite of it, is by far one of the most highly political communities I've ever seen. We're not talking about PTA wars or dirty Republicans. We're talking about the seat of western communism during most... [ Read More (0.3k in body) ] |
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RE: Cultures collide in diverse Hamtramck
by w1ld at 7:27 pm EDT, Apr 27, 2004 |
] (Of course, there is always the story about the Orb concert
] where they took a record of this thing and cut it into their
] mix because they thought it sounded cool and ended up getting
] their show shut down because there were Islamic people in the
] audience who got offended...) Can you find the mp3 of that. I bet that kicks ass... |
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Cultures collide in diverse Hamtramck
by flynn23 at 3:25 pm EDT, Apr 26, 2004 |
] From her front porch, Alice Dembowski has watched her
] city change, one tidy house at a time.
]
] "Chinese, Polish, Bosnian, Polish, Bengali,"
] she recites, her finger moving down the block. "They
] were all Polish at one time."
]
] "I've made friends. I go to their weddings.
] (But) we're losing our tradition and I'm
] getting mad," Dembowski said. "If they're going to live in America, why can't they be more
] American?"
]
] Next month, Hamtramck will become one of the few cities
] in the United States where the Islamic call to prayer is
] broadcast onto public streets. The impact of that
] decision is reverberating across the nation. This is HUGE. But Mrs. Dembowski's quote is priceless given that Hamtramck has been *the* bastion of Polish society in the US for generations. |
Cultures collide in diverse Hamtramck
by k at 5:26 pm EDT, Apr 26, 2004 |
This is a 4 minute thing that they blast 5 times a day. There is a sample on this site. For the most part I think its cool. I wouldn't mind it especially in an urban area. But, of course, I mostly like it because its alien. Others will hate it for the same reason. I think the critical question is, at dawn? If this thing is loud enough to wake people up its a no go. I strongly support your right to blast islamic rites (or heavy metal for that matter) as long as you're not interfering with other people's sleep. [ This is an interesting issue to consider. Fundamentally, yes, anything that is detrimental the majority of people in an area shouldn't be imposed. Waking everyone up at 5:30 in the morning (or whenever sunrise is...) is almost certainly a problem. The concept of a minaret spiking into the sky in my neighborhood, broadcasting a call to prayer (though real people would be cooler than loudspeakers...), is sorta romantic in the abstract, and diversity (as the bolded section above notes) is certainly a positive force. From that standpoint, I support this kinda thing.
However, in reality, I may well tire of the sound after time, or if it were very close and very loud, during dinner, or during my favorite show or while talking to grandma on the phone. As Decius says, community standards have to define the community environment, but i do have trouble with it when people make foolish, ignorant choices, based more on xenophobia and short sighted value structures than on policy of acceptance and cultural adaptability. Obviously, that's based on my own progressivism, and I can't force anyone to think my way, but I have no problem telling people they're being irrational or unfair. Like a woman named Dembowski wishing people could be more "American". -k] |
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