Decius wrote:

] This is a 4 minute thing that they blast 5 times a day. There
] is a sample on this site. For the most part I think its cool.
] I wouldn't mind it especially in an urban area. But, of
] course, I mostly like it because its alien. Others will hate
] it for the same reason.
]
] I think the critical question is, at dawn? If this thing is
] loud enough to wake people up its a no go. I strongly support
] your right to blast islamic rites (or heavy metal for that
] matter) as long as you're not interfering with other people's
] sleep.
]
] Community standards must factor in here. Obviously I couldn't
] set up a heavy metal loud speaker that played megadeth for 4
] minutes five times a day. The only way to draw the line
] between this and that is to ask what the community is
] comfortable with, regardless of what you think of the
] community's reasons for choosing to be comfortable or
] uncomfortable with it. I don't see any way around that
] conceptually.

The key dynamic here is that the community 'standard' is rapidly changing, and from one extreme to another. Hamtramck has been the staunch base of Poles in the West for more than 80 years. If you know anything about Polish culture, you realize that there are several key factors that make an incursion of Islam pretty uncomfortable.

For one, Poles, in general, are died in the wool Roman Catholic. There is a reason why the Pope is Polish. And their belief systems are ingrained and strong. The Church is interwoven in Polish society like drugs are in raver culture. There is no distinction.

Two, most of the muslims that have settled in the area are Bosnians. That's to say they are Eastern European. If you know anything about the Bosnian conflict during the 90s, you'll realize that it was genocide on the order of the Nazis. The only difference was that it was muslims getting slaughtered by 'christians' (primarily Catholics). This was the whole reason why no one gave a shit and the US had to itervene (admittedly too late). Even the Middle Eastern muslims dislike the Eastern European muslims. They are considered half-breeds. Having their presence in a highly concentrated Polish community is irritating to say the least. This is exacerbated because most of the true Poles that are left are elderly, and they're not too open to 'change' or 'new ideas' if you know what I mean. My Babci (Polish for Grandmother), lives on Poland Street in Hamtramck and has for nearly 60 years. She still uses the word 'nigger', despite the fact that her physician is a black man. These are salt of the earth people.

And three, Hamtramck, maybe because of its highly Eastern European makeup, or in spite of it, is by far one of the most highly political communities I've ever seen. We're not talking about PTA wars or dirty Republicans. We're talking about the seat of western communism during most of the 20th century. We're talking about the inspiration for Diego Rivera's Industrial murals. We're talking about where the UAW and the Teamsters came to power. We're talking about a tremendous amount of extreme political history, that still reverberates today. It's not Mayberry.

Hamtramck has basically suffered from White Flight over the last two-three decades. My family is no different. Babci still lives there, and so do my Aunt and Uncle (her kids), but my mother moved away a long time ago, and so did my Dad's family and most of their peers. There are other Polish communities in MI, namely White Lake/Lakeland, Fenton, Wyandotte, and interspersed with the Italians and Germans throughout Macomb county. But Hamtramck is where all those families originated from. It's the Ellis Island of Detroit. And I remember it being really beautiful as a child. It's basically a ghetto now. Although ironically, it's *the* hip place to live in Detroit.

] In general I think its a good thing to promote the notion that
] in the west Islam is acceptable. In the East they might ask if
] other cultures are similarly accepted.

Totally agree, and it surprises me that in Dearborn (nearly ALL middle easterners) they don't sound the call to prayer, but it almost seems incendiary to do it in Hamtramck. It's like the muslims are declaring that they've overrun the place and want the Poles to know their days are numbered. I know that's probably not 100% true, but it *feels* like this.

You have to understand that my childhood memories, and that of countless other people's recollections of the area, are going to be embedded with the church bells of St. Florians Cathedral in the background. The smells of Polish food floating through the air. The sounds of Polish voices and music floating through the air. The street festivals. The entire community is draped in red and white. I haven't experienced anything like it in the South at all. I'm sure there are black communities like west Nashville that might be similar, but they never seemed as strong in heritage to me, and the reasons seem obvious to me. I feel sad about it just like Mrs. Dembowski does, but I also understand that it's not necessarily a bad thing. But certainly, something is being lost.

] (Of course, there is always the story about the Orb concert
] where they took a record of this thing and cut it into their
] mix because they thought it sounded cool and ended up getting
] their show shut down because there were Islamic people in the
] audience who got offended...)

Hmmm... what about The The's "Good Morning Beautiful"??? I've seen that played live countless times.

RE: Cultures collide in diverse Hamtramck