Hijexx wrote:

A more fair study would not misrepresent these figures, or at least try harder to extrapolate population data to fit more closely with the wage data time frames. Yes, these things do matter.

Alright, we've got a full on debate going here! Excellent!

First of all, to respond to your (well-documented) qualms regarding
the study I pointed out. Not being a statistician, or even good at
math, I will have to assume that your issues with the study are good ones. I tend to take information that is given to me from trusted sources as good enough, since they are experts and I, decidedly am not. However, I believe you will find many studies, even coming from an anti-immigrant viewpoint, that back up my claim. But, for the purposes of arguement, let's say that you are correct in your assertions and we'll take your point and run with it: there is not enough data to support a claim to one side or another. I feel certain it would be similar trying to determine the net-impact of any one social group on the country.

Hijexx wrote:

This is a large point that cannot be glossed over. More research needs to be done. This is an evolving science.

Fair enough. Moving on:

Hijexx wrote:

WHAT IS SO FREAKING WRONG WITH LEGAL IMMIGRATION ANYWAY? What is so bad about wanting immigrants that wish to live in MY COUNTRY to do so legally? Yes, I understand the nice, happy ideology of, "What makes living on one part of God's green Earth legal, and another part illegal?" I'll tell you what, it's called the rule of law. We are a land of rules and laws. What you seem to be championing is anarchy or one world government, take your pick. In the meantime, we have what we have, which are many procedures and laws to emigrate. If you don't follow those, if you bypass them, you are here ILLEGALLY and you should be removed.

Needless to say, I disagree. I happened to be reading your comments yesterday, which was Holocaust memorial day. I was thinking about how during the early part of the Holocaust, thousands of Jewish immigrants were turned away from the U.S. and sent back to nazi-Europe because public opinion was widely opposed to them settling the in the U.S.

I mention this not to compare Mexico to nazi Germany, but rather to point out the well-observed fact that Americans are typically against immigration- whether for good reasons, bad reasons, or no reasons. This legality issue is covering up the fact that people just generally do not like mass movements of people moving onto what they percieve as "their land." Forgetting the fact, of course, that their own ancestors were once part of these immigrant movements long before our current immigration system was in place.

I am certainly in favor of the rule of law. In fact, I want to become a lawyer. However, when laws are unjust or simply do not w... [ Read More (0.2k in body) ]

RE: How can Illegal Immigration help our Homeless situation?

members of the band Lordi expected a reaction when they beat a crooner of love ballads to represent Finland at the Eurovision song contest in Athens, the competition that was the springboard for Abba and Celine Dion.
But the heavy-metal monster band did not imagine a national identity crisis.
First, Finnish religious leaders warned that the Freddy Krueger look-alikes could inspire Satanic worship. Then critics called for President Tarja Halonen to use her constitutional powers to veto the band and nominate a traditional Finnish folk singer instead. Rumors even circulated that Lordi members were agents sent by President Vladimir V. Putin to destabilize Finland before a Russian coup — an explanation for their refusal to take off their freakish masks in public.

Finland Squirms as Its Latest Export Steps Into Spotlight - New York Times

dc0de wrote:
Lastly, your use of the term 'bourgeois' to describe the media is very interesting... I have to make an assumption that your definition of the term is from the Marxist camp, instead of the original meaning of the word. And that being the case, makes your entire statement, and your viewpoint moot. If you're a marxist, you want everyone to be the same, and you just haven't realized that those of us who WORKED OUR ASSES off to get where we are, don't want to subsidize those who are too stupid or lazy to get ahead.

Oh boy. Viewpoints different from yours are "moot"? I better shut up then. Sounds like we disagree on a lot. Unfortunately, it sounds to me like while you were busy "working your ass off" you forgot to get an education consisting of a variety of viewpoints. (Some of which might turn out to be... different than yours.) Oh and speaking of which, here are some more:

1. Illegal immigrants do pay social security and other taxes which they don't collect. I won't argue with you further since you obviously have access to a computer and can look it up. (That study I mentioned in the last one is a good place to start.)

2. Um, where are you reading that undocumented individuals have access to healthcare? I assume that you are referring to emergency rooms. In which case, sorry, but its a human rights as well as public health issue that if someone is severely hurt and/or sick they have to be helped, regardless of their status or insurance-holding situation. (Otherwise, you would untreated disease-carrying individuals walking around infecting all those nice legal health-care holders.) But you're crazy if you think that illegals have access to "health-care" in any comprehensive way. They can't even get shitty Medicaid packages.

As for schools, the school systems are fucked because, among other reasons, the school funding systems in most states are a disaster. All children living here are entitled to an education, regardless of their parents' status, ethnicity, or tax-paying abilities. Sorry, but its the law- and its a good one. School funding systems are (mainly) based on property taxes as well as federal funding. Since both do not provide enough for either equitable or adequate education, you see a decline in the quality of education- regardless of the percentage of illegal or legal immigrants in that area. If you think kids in areas where there is little or no illegal immigration are better off, think again.

Also keep in mind that people who don't have children pay taxes for YOUR children to go to school and don't bitch about it all the time. Why? Because it is in the public interest to have a well-educated citizenry. The argument that your kids are missing out because other kids get a basic education is a cop-out and misses the point completely. You shoukd be arguing for better funding for ALL children in the U.S. (And I would agree with you on that!)

And "state-paid interpreters?" please. Many LEGAL immigrants do not have access to those even when they go to court. The most many schools have is a poorly run ESOL program and a guidance counselor who speaks spanish. That does not begin to cover the problem for LEGAL immigrants from other countries.

So what's your problem here, really? You don't like unions, marxists, people who speak other languages, what?

I agree this problem is complex and filled with propaganda on both sides. But you owe it to yourself to take a look at both sides of the arguement and realize that deportation/ fences/ a permanent lower class is not the answer to a problem that is (at least partly) the result of a hundred years of U.S. interference in Latin America. I sure don't have the solution, but I know that blind hatred and scapegoating is not it.

RE: How can Illegal Immigration help our Homeless situation?

Mr. Bush did not declassify the National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq — in any accepted sense of that word — when he authorized I. Lewis Libby Jr., through Vice President Dick Cheney, to talk about it with reporters. He permitted a leak of cherry-picked portions of the report. The declassification came later.

A good summary of the Libby-leak situation.

A Bad Leak - New York Times

In the fishes' forward fins, the scientists found evidence of limbs in the making. There are the beginnings of digits, proto-wrists, elbows and shoulders. The fish also had a flat skull resembling a crocodile's, a neck, ribs and other parts that were similar to four-legged land animals known as tetrapods.
Other scientists said that in addition to confirming elements of a major transition in evolution, the fossils were a powerful rebuttal to religious creationists, who have long argued that the absence of such transitional creatures are a serious weakness in Darwin's theory.

On the same front page as the discovery of the gospel of Judas! Isn't the world a crazy place?!

Fossil Called Missing Link From Sea to Land Animals - New York Times

An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years, and it portrays Judas Iscariot not as a betrayer of Jesus but as his favored disciple and willing collaborator.

This is some Davinci Code shit here. Crazy.

In Ancient Document, Judas, Minus the Betrayal - New York Times

Remember the whiny, insecure kid in nursery school, the one who always thought everyone was out to get him, and was always running to the teacher with complaints? Chances are he grew up to be a conservative.

TheStar.com - How to spot a baby conservative

LAW enforcement officials, politicians and social scientists have put forward many explanations for the astonishing drop in crime rates in America over the last decade or so, and yet we remain mystified. Studies have shown that while each of the usual suspects — a decline in crack use, aggressive policing, increased prison populations, a relatively strong economy, increased availability of abortion — has probably played some role, none has proved to be as dominant a factor as initially suggested.
Perhaps we have been overlooking something obvious — something that our implicit biases caused us not to notice.

My unusual suspect is foreigners: evidence points to increased immigration as a major factor associated with the lower crime rate of the 1990's (and its recent leveling off).

Fascinating! You mean that all that name-calling and meta-politics actually was bullshit? Who knew!?

Open Doors Don't Invite Criminals - New York Times

Depressed, young people and the Internet — it's a very dangerous mix," said Mafumi Usui, a psychology professor at Niigata Seiryo University

Internet-Arranged Suicides Surge in Japan - Yahoo! News

Federal and state authorities have not commented on a possible motive, beyond evidence that an apparent prank spun out of control. Defense attorneys have not commented either, but say the fires were not crimes of hate.

What is going on with teenage boys in this country? Church fires (in "Bombingham")as a alcohol fuled prank? Homeless men beat to death as a "joke"? How can people so young be so violent and destructive?

Chron.com | Drinking May Have Fueled Ala. Church Fires