In Syria? That would be convienient as they're next in the crosshairs. So you're question here is: If Syria had Iraq's weapons, does that justify war in Iraq? Not that we have any real evidence of this. There is just as much conjecture as there was in the Iraq case (if not more). This lack of evidence is what led to this "Intelligence Failure," right? If we actually looked at the facts and the facts showed that Syria had the weapons...Why the hell would we attack Iraq and not Syria in the first place? But we haven't built this case on facts (we would have found the weapons if we did). Our efforts would have been better spent learning more before we rushed in and wasted not just life, but billions of dollars. That counts as a MAJOR fuck up. If we had the means to take over, we had the means to gain conclusive evidence to do so. We would have probably not have needed to act unilaterally by then. Instead, we get Bush, who knew that the intelligence was lacking, tell us it's a sure thing. There was no maybe. That's what makes it a lie, and not just wrong. There were maybes' that "they" were out to get us, but I don't see that as thought out reasons for war. Thinking might prevent future "Intelligence Failures." If we go into Syria (who offered us aid in Iraq) we had better have real evidence instead of paranoid delusions and unsubstantiated claims.
If there are any weapons, I say we should give Bush 48hours to produce them, else he and his family should leave the country.

RE: Blair Defends War Decision

Elonka wrote:
] ] If you remember, Bush gave Suddaam a 3 day ultimatum to
] ] surrender the weapons of mass destruction he *knew* had to
] be
] ] in Iraq.
]
] Well, yes, I remember the circumstances extremely well, as I
] was heavily involved in researching Iraq's history and WMD
] programs during the time before we went to war. BTW, the
] final ultimatum was not a 3-day deadline to surrender WMD, it
] was a 48-hour ultimatum for Saddam and his sons to leave the
] country:
] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2857789.stm
You're right. I confused that ultimatum with this one:
http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=231

] Also, it's worth pointing out that this was not a "U.S v Iraq"
] situation that boiled over into a war. This was a situation
] where the *entire world* was against Saddam. There wasn't a
] single one of his neighbor countries who wanted him to stay in
] power. They were all calling for him to resign. Further,
] every country's intelligence service believed Iraq to possess
] WMD stockpiles. Even France believed this. The only country
] that said Iraq didn't have WMD, was Iraq.

Thats interesting. Here are the reactions right after the ultimatum from the rest of the world. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2859485.stm
Its a mixed bag. Most other countries intelligence was still based on the same evidence(or lack of) which was still in question before we attacked. ( http://www.house.gov/reform/min/pdfs/pdf_inves/pdf_admin_iraq_nuclear_evidence_march_17_let.pdf)
Not that it really made a difference. We're hesitant about going after North Korea precisely because they DO have WMD. Most of the world didn't see Suddaam as a serious threat to even his neigboring countries anymore. If Suddaam was released from the UN weapons inspectors, would he rebuild? Probably. Was he compliant with the UN inspectors? Yes- They were asking him to provide info for something which apparently doesn't exist. Thats not reasonable. Would we be able to continue the inspections indefinately? More than likely, if thats what we chose to do.

] ] Blatently, the reasons we're in Iraq were not publicised by
] ] those who made the decision
]
] I beg to differ. The world's unhappiness with Iraq was
] extremely well publicized and debated. The U.N. passed
] resolution after resolution condemning Iraq. Iraq wasn't a
] country that we were worried *might* use chemical weapons,
] Iraq was a country that verifiably *had* used chemical
] weapons, on multiple occasions, against a variety of targets
] including people in its own country. Iraq verifiably had
] already killed or wounded *thousands* of people with chemical
] weapons. It wasn't a suspicion of something that Saddam
] *might* be capable of, it was a proven fact. And anyone who'd
] try to ... [ Read More (0.5k in body) ]

RE: Blair Defends War Decision

] I was 23-24 years old when I wrote these diaries. I
] certainly wasn't planning on publishing them when I wrote
] them; so reading them now either makes me laugh, cry or
] cringe. I will not make any claims to being a gifted
] writer or diarist, but the aim here is to give the reader
] some sense of what it was like to tour across the USA in
] a van with a punk rock band in the mid to late 1980's.
] Some say this was the heyday of independent rock music
] and the college radio scene. I would bet we worked harder
] and played many more shows than many of today's
] 'alternative' rock bands will play in their short-lived
] careers.

Dean Clean has put up a Moveable Type blog, and is posting commented entries from his journal covering the Milkmen's first tour. Other members of the band are also adding comments. You can follow the band on their tour, 18 years lagged.

Also, they have a number of music videos available for download from their main website.

The Dead Milkmen are required listening. Don't trust anyone who says they do not like The Dead Milkmen.

The Dead Milkmen: 18 years ago

A group of Cubans sails toward the Florida Straits on a modified 1959 Buick Tuesday. Tho boat was intercepted by the U.S. Coast Guard.

I did not realize Monster Garage was playing in Cuba now...

It's an improvement. Last year they were using pick-ups.

USA Today: Cubans in car-boat are stopped at sea

Elonka wrote:

] I would also point out that Kay himself said plenty of
] evidence of WMD programs were found in Iraq, *including* an
] active Ricin program that was only interrupted by our invasion
] last March. However, Kay's report continues to be misquoted
] all over the place. People seize on "no evidence of WMD
] stockpiles", and ignore everything else he said, such as the
] fact that he still thought the war was a good idea, and that
] it was still essential to keep looking, and that just because
] we haven't found stockpiles, does not mean that they didn't
] exist. It *was* confirmed by the U.N. that Iraq at one point
] had over 8000 liters of anthrax, and multiple tons of VX, but
] it's still uncertain as to just what exactly happened to those
] stockpiles.

If you remember, Bush gave Suddaam a 3 day ultimatum to surrender the weapons of mass destruction he *knew* had to be in Iraq. The evidence that was based on was described by some to be child-like forgeries. Most of Suddaam's atrocities were committed while we still supported him. The reasons why went to war likely had little to do with WMD or whether or not we thought Suddaam was a nice guy. The biggest issue here is that no matter what our government does, the people largely cannot accept that we might have been the bad guys. The clear reasons for this "war" have yet to be stated publicly, and where these forged documents came from, why, and who made them aren't even seriously being asked. Blatently, the reasons we're in Iraq were not publicised by those who made the decision and we are forced to swallow a bucket of horse-shit. We gained stratigic positioning, but that seems like a pretty selfish reason to take over a country. If the general American idiocy accepts the answers we've been given, "because God told me to,""because its in your best interest,"and"because I said so" become valid explinations in the future.

RE: Blair Defends War Decision

ix wrote:
] the gothamist writes:
] --
] FCC Chariman Michael Powell opens an FCC investigation by
] saying, "I am outraged at what I saw during the halftime show
] of the Super Bowl. Like millions of Americans, my family and I
] fathered around the television for a celebration. Instead,
] that celebration was tainted by a classless, crass, and
] deplorable stunt. Our nation's children, parents and citizens
] deserve better."
] Yes, deserve better, like farting horses on the beer
] commercials, 'cause flatulence and animals is classy.
] --
]
] seems to me, there's a lot of bigotry around.

It was only a fucking tit!!! If their kids can handle a bunch of men slamming into and on top of one another, they should be able to handle Janet Jackson's fucking tit. It was mostly metal anyway. They don't object to the Viagra commercials trying to cure their limp dicks, but one flash of titty and its "outrage." No wonder they need Viagra. What sort of message does it send to kids to get angry over tittage anyway? Its the parents reaction to this bullshit which makes their kids retards.

RE: Gothamist: Janet Jackson's Garment Collapse

A 170-pound bronze statue of Yoda, the Star Wars Jedi master, has been stolen in Pasadena, California.

Hah... Some Star Wars geek probably has it in his livingroom.

£14,000 Yoda is stolen

] Could the recognition of our imperfect understanding
] serve to establish the open society as a desirable form
] of social organization? I believe it could, although
] there are formidable difficulties in the way. We must
] promote a belief in our own fallibility to the status
] that we normally confer on a belief in ultimate truth.

Decius's comments:

Wow, this might be the most important thing I've read since MemeStreams started. [ I agree 100% with Decius here. I was planning to respond directly to his comments and this article, however its going to have to come connected to something else. I just don't have the time right now. Way too much to go into and/or comment on. - nick ]

First off, despite the title, this is not an anti-capitalist screed. George Soros is an investment banker and the 38th richest man in the country. In fact, this article isn't really about capitalism. This article is about everything. The title is so poor that I almost changed it.

What Soros is saying about Capitalism is that there are people who accept the concept of free trade in a ideological way, in an absolutist way, and that is a problem. The problem with religious states, which requires the separation of church and state, is that when laws are the product of man, they are open to debate, but when laws are the product of God, to question is heresy. If you have a society in which the law cannot be questioned, you have a totalitarian society. It is only a matter of time.

The thing that Soros is saying here is that any absolutist ideology can be abused in this manner. It doesn't matter if your ideology is based on the Bible, or the writings of Marx, or the writings of Adam Smith. If you have a nation of people who believe that their principals are beyond question, ultimately you have a totalitarianism. It is only a matter of time before the inconsistencies your absolutism forces you to ignore cause fissures which break your society down.

Reading this essay caused me to think back across many of the discussions that I've had on this site over the past two years. My instinct that Fukuyama's belief in an ultimate solution was flawed. Being able to see great tragedies of history reflected in the idea of pre-emptive military action and being unable to demonstrate that its not "ok" if you're doing it for Democracy. In our worries about the state of the IT industry. In my various discussions about politics with people from various perspectives.

I've had a really hard time deciding where I fit in the political spectrum. I know what the tests tell me, but somehow I'm never comfortable with the answers. When I talk to conservatives they think I'm a liberal. When I talk to liberals they thing I'm a conservative (or at the least that I've been duped by them). One thing I've come away from years and years of these conversations with is the idea that people usually i... [ Read More (0.2k in body) ]

The Capitalist Threat - George Soros

Decius wrote:
] Cryptogrphever is an on-line application which lets you
] discover secret messages hidden in webpages published on
] internet. It is possibile to analyze any text with
] criptographever.

]Secret messages are everywhere! This tool is proof. It takes any ]text and figures out if there are English words in a transposition ]of the text. The "Cultural Class War" article I recently posted ]here said "hit target."

Its a virtual "beautiful mind"

Cryptographever

Hippocampal volumes were measured in 17 MDD subjects (age = 16.67 +/- 1.83 years [mean +/- SD]; range = 13 - 18 years) and 17 age- and sex-matched healthy controls (16.23 +/- 1.61 years [mean +/- SD]; 13 - 18 years) using magnetic resonance imaging (MRI)

De-evolution.

Hippocampal volume in early onset depression