Torture "is basically subject to perception," CIA counterterrorism lawyer Jonathan Fredman told a group of military and intelligence officials gathered at the U.S.-run detention camp in Cuba on Oct. 2, 2002, according to minutes of the meeting. "If the detainee dies, you're doing it wrong."

Well no shit Sherlock. Does anyone still question whether what we were doing at Abu Ghraib, Bagram or Gitmo was torture? How can that still be in question? Because Georgie said we don't and the President wouldn't lie to us? When has he told the truth?

CIA Played Larger Role In Advising Pentagon - washingtonpost.com