Decius wrote:
] We know that we've
] been employing torture, not just at Abu Gharib, but all over
] the place. I'm reminded of that spook who testified in
] Congress that "It's very important that the American people
] understand this. After 9/11 the gloves came off."
]
] The gloves came off. This is what they mean.
]
] That's the discussion I think we really ought to be having.
] Should we torture people? Is it effective? Does it save lives?
] It's not a simple question.

His name is Cofer Black, and this is exactly what he meant.

I recommend the Mark Bowden article in Atlantic Monthly. I also recommend the second Seymour Hersh article after Abu Ghraib, about "COPPER GREEN". You can also read the last chapter of "Why America Slept." There is plenty of material out there to consider.

If, by "discussion", you mean a public discourse on the subject, good luck. Your government may not be particularly interested in your opinions on the matter.

RE: Talking Points Memo