finethen wrote:

I agree this problem is complex and filled with propaganda on both sides. But you owe it to yourself to take a look at both sides of the arguement and realize that deportation/ fences/ a permanent lower class is not the answer to a problem that is (at least partly) the result of a hundred years of U.S. interference in Latin America. I sure don't have the solution, but I know that blind hatred and scapegoating is not it.

I read that study you are referring to. A few points:

* The study uses 2000 population numbers, but 2003 wage data. That is disingenuous and skews the numbers, leading to higher figures of purported tax payments. Say there is a hypothetical population of 100,000 illegals in 2000, earning a total of $1,000,000,000, for a total of $10,000 per capita. Wages rise over time, lets say between 2000 and 2003 there was a 12.1 % increase. the ECI numbers that are available. I understand you can't really equate the Employment Cost Index numbers with the work that illegals perform, since they are, well, undocumented and no one really knows what their realized wage increases have been over those years. But ECI numbers are a benchmark that is generally recognized so I will use them.

If you don't factor the growth of the illegal population between 2000 and 2003, in 2003 you have a total of $1,121,000,000, or $11,210 per capita. That's $1210 more per person, thus more income to reflect more purported taxes paid, just by using lower population numbers with higher wage numbers.

A more fair study would not misrepresent these figures, or at least try harder to extrapolate population data to fit more closely with the wage data time frames. Yes, these things do matter.

* The study emulates property tax payments by saying that rent payments count. I almost laughed out loud at that. Imagine if I tried to claim on my income taxes that the rent I pay right now somehow counts as a property tax payment, and I tried to itemize that on my income tax return. Complete fabrication. If there were no illegals here renting houses or apartments, those houses and apartments would be rented to someone else. Seriously, I cannot believe this was included. This one point alone is enough to make me question the entire study.

* The study states "Studies have shown numerous income tax compliance rates for that population, several ranging from 50% to 70%." They use the 50% figure. Okay, what are these studies? Without a reference, this number is just a number pulled out of thin air to me.

* They do at least mention remittances. Unfortunately, I cannot find any data about the percentage of illegal immigrant remittances versus legal. All public figures I find are an aggregate total to each country.

"Another caveat to the use of national average income is the lack of data on remittances. Studies have shown that many immigrant workers send a portion of their income or wages to their country-of-origin in the form of remittances. One such study showed that 81% of Latin American immigrants in Georgia regularly send remittances to their home countries in an average annual amount of over $2,700 per adult immigrant.8 This portion of income traveling outside of the US would lower their after-tax income, which would presumably lower their sales tax contribution. If data on remittances of the undocumented population in Georgia was available, income and sales tax contributions would need to be adjusted to incorporate that income transfer."

This is a large point that cannot be glossed over. More research needs to be done. This is an evolving science.

And, ultimately, this isn't something we should even be having to spend all these cycles on. A new science of measuring unknown quanities of illegal immigrants and trying to project their contributions to the economy. I'll call it, "Illegal Economics" for lack of a better term. Maybe even "Quantum Immigration" since the topic we're dealing with so closely parallels the unknowns of that field.

WHAT IS SO FREAKING WRONG WITH LEGAL IMMIGRATION ANYWAY? What is so bad about wanting immigrants that wish to live in MY COUNTRY to do so legally? Yes, I understand the nice, happy ideology of, "What makes living on one part of God's green Earth legal, and another part illegal?" I'll tell you what, it's called the rule of law. We are a land of rules and laws. What you seem to be championing is anarchy or one world government, take your pick. In the meantime, we have what we have, which are many procedures and laws to emigrate. If you don't follow those, if you bypass them, you are here ILLEGALLY and you should be removed.

If I walked into your house one day uninvited, and said, "I am going to live here thank you very much," and I proceeded to do so, I would be arrested and removed from the premises Think about that one.

RE: How can Illegal Immigration help our Homeless situation?