Hijexx wrote:

adam wrote:

absolutely but america will never disarm
how many Wacos would there be if the attempt was made

*sigh*

Are you saying every American is a polygamistic charismatic cult leader with a messianic complex?

Since this is a pay site, I can't read the article you meme'd.

i'm certainly not saying that "every American is a polygamistic charismatic cult leader with a messianic complex" but i'm saying that Americans love their guns and that there is a significant minority that completely agree with Charlon Heston when he says "they" will only get his gun(s) by taking them from his "cold dead hands"
the reference to Waco was because the issue which started that siege was, if my memory serves me correctly, firearms -- initially the authorities outside Waco were the ATF (the Treasury bureau responsible for Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms)
America is full of ordinary decent libertarians, right-wing fascist shit heads, god bothering charismatic backwoodsmen, and a wide spectrum of people who don't fit any particular label or category but wouldn't part from their guns without a fight
i'm not arguing the ethics of gun control -- to me gun conrol is bloody obvious -- i see no reason why i need a gun as a UK citizen -- there is no ethical reason but the problems with gun control in America boils down to pragmatics. It may be possible to end the American love affair with the gun, that icon of the West, of liberty, of masculinity -- I hope it is but it is a process which would take generations.

I am sure gun conrol will happen in America but whether there will still be a United States by the time British style gun control happens I doubt -- by that time there will be a global government, we will have colonised the solar system and terrorists will be armed with nanotech virusues -- timescale the next 150 to 200 years
the only way to achieve effective gun control in America is to chip away at the edges -- to me the logic of gun conrol has Satyagraha -- truth-force -- it will happen
so when i said it would never happen
amend that to my lifetime and the lives of my nieces but maybe in their children's lifetimes
i think people should be realistic about what a signicant shift needs to take place as is clear to me when decent intelligent people like dc0de can't be convinced and think it's about their freedom

be a taoist about it -- be like water and wear away at the problem -- don't confront -- don't challenge -- don't threaten -- do what is achievable -- be pragmatic -- i don't mean have a hidden agenda -- be open and honest about what you want -- be reasonable -- be calm -- be like water wearing away a rock

so the approach has to be incremental or there will be lots of Wacos
what needs to change is American culture, the American zeitgeist
part of what i'm attacking is what to me is bullshit macho individualism "he can't be a man if he doesn't smoke the same cigarettes as me" -- not to destroy it for I believe it has many positive attributes but rather to encourage a sea-change -- in the full Shakespeare's The Tempest sense

RE: Hooked on Violence - New York Times

Those who are interested in the safety and well-being of children should keep in mind that only motor vehicle accidents and cancer kill more children in the U.S. than firearms. A study released a few years ago by the Harvard School of Public Health compared firearm mortality rates among youngsters 5 to 14 years old in the five states with the highest rates of gun ownership with those in the five states with the lowest rates.

The results were chilling. Children in the states with the highest rates of gun ownership were 16 times as likely to die from an accidental gunshot wound, nearly seven times as likely to commit suicide with a gun, and more than three times as likely to be murdered with a firearm.

Only a lunatic could seriously believe that more guns in more homes is good for America’s children.

absolutely but america will never disarm
how many Wacos would there be if the attempt was made

Hooked on Violence - New York Times

Astronomers have found the most Earth-like planet outside our Solar System to date, a world which could have water running on its surface.

The planet orbits the faint star Gliese 581, which is 20.5 light-years away in the constellation Libra.

Scientists made the discovery using the Eso 3.6m Telescope in Chile.

They say the benign temperatures on the planet mean any water there could exist in liquid form, and this raises the chances it could also harbour life.

"We have estimated that the mean temperature of this 'super-Earth' lies between 0 and 40 degrees Celsius, and water would thus be liquid," explained Stephane Udry of the Geneva Observatory, lead author of the scientific paper reporting the result.

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | New 'super-Earth' found in space

Kryptonite is no longer just the stuff of fiction feared by caped superheroes.

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | 'Kryptonite' discovered in mine

Meanwhile, back in Baghdad, we're building a wall. Actually, quite a few walls.
...
Basically, we're turning Baghdad into Belfast.

Eugene Robinson - Walled City - washingtonpost.com

Whenever you read about capital flowing into Africa, though, it tends to be from big lenders like the World Bank, which have very strict criteria and work on big projects, or from microfinanciers, giving out $50 to a woman to buy a sewing machine. Microfinance has a role, but many people don’t want the pressure of being an entrepreneur. They want the stability and prosperity of a job created by capitalist risk takers and innovators. See India.

In some ways what Africa needs most today is more “patient” capital to spur its would-be capitalists. Patient capital has all the discipline of venture capital — demanding a return, and therefore rigor in how it is deployed — but expecting a return that is more in the 5 to 10 percent range, rather than the 35 percent that venture capitalists look for, and with a longer payback period.

‘Patient’ Capital for an Africa That Can’t Wait - New York Times

This is what I don't get... I go to CNN the other day and they have a picture of the VT killer pointing a gun at the camera.... On their main page above the fold, pointing a gun at me. And I have to look at that. And that's "journalism." That's "my right to know." But at the same time, in his rant, he says things like fuck, and motherfucker, and I can't see that. I don't get to hear that. The media has protected me from that. And thats supposed to make sense. Its supposed to be natural for the media to want to protect my innocent ears from hearing the word fuck, but it is their obliglation to show me a shocking photograph of a murderer pointing a hand gun at a camera. On their front page.

Do you think normal people are sane?

Here is another thing I don't get. We used to be a free country. It used to be the case that if the President felt that you should be arrested that you would receive a fair trial with assistance of counsel before a jury of your peers. But thats gone. Today, the President can detain you for any reason indefinately, without trial. There is no bill of rights anymore. Its impossible in such circumstances, because checks and balances, which no longer exist, are the keystone of freedom.

But we have an individual who masterminded a plot to blow up an airplane containing 73 innocent people. And he is free, in this country, because, it was in our interests. In my mind, the murder of 73 innocent people is never... moral..... But he is free... In this country, and the tools that exist to detain people without trial are not being used against him. Perhaps the death of those 73 innocent people reduced my tax burden. Perhaps many in this country support this. It doesn't make any sense to me. I don't get it.

I don't think we are what we think we are.

See...

The Iranian Supreme Court has overturned the murder convictions of six members of a prestigious state militia who killed five people they considered “morally corrupt.”
...
Iran’s Islamic penal code, which is a parallel system to its civic code, says murder charges can be dropped if the accused can prove the killing was carried out because the victim was morally corrupt.

This is true even if the killer identified the victim mistakenly as corrupt. In that case, the law requires “blood money” to be paid to the family. Every year in Iran, a senior cleric determines the amount of blood money required in such cases. This year it is $40,000 if the victim is a Muslim man, and half that for a Muslim woman or a non-Muslim.

Iran Exonerates Six Who Killed in Islam’s Name - New York Times

A gardener has decided to down tools on his working life at the age of 104.

gardening is good for the soul

BBC NEWS | England | Dorset | Gardener downs his tools at 104

One of my trades is that of mental health professional. Former, but I still have my license, and my interest, and I've seen a LOT.

So I can't help but venture into armchair psychoanalysis. Forgive me. I've sat here for a long time bored, going though the plays that Cho wrote, and I've listened to some interviews with his classmates and roommates, and reading news articles to catch up on all that...

What I keep seeing is "Oh, he wrote disturbing stuff. People getting killed. Weapons. Threats under what he wrote. Twisted violent stuff..."

And I have to groan. There's thousands of screenwriters, playwrights, novelists, ect., who produce some very graphic and violent work. 300. The Grudge. Saw. Saw II. Stephen King. Anne Rice. Mel Gibson. Castlevania. Doom. Ad infinitum.

And there's some artists out there that paint pictures of people
dead, dying, and bleeding. Like me.

Don't you think that if everyone that produced graphic, violent art was crazy and in danger of being a 'shooter' that we'd not have NOTICED it by now?

No, the media has this one wrong.

While it is true that I've seen alot of really disturbing letters, plays, poems, ect....it is rarely the violence that is expressed that is the problem.

It is the disorganization. I can't think of a single mental patient that would have ever got an A on a paper we put in a chart - put it that way. One very common thing you see is writing all over the page, into the margins, between lines, just totally disjointed mess. Sometimes writing over other writing. It is a sign of a disorganized mind. Sometimes you will see very real, detailed fantasies. Usually against someone in the person's past, or someone that they know in reality.

But these people are dysfunctional. They are hospitalized, or incarcerated.

This shooter was not dysfunctional with his living skills. He was clean they say, neat. He was living in a dorm and going to college, and he knew how to buy a gun. No, two. He could type, and use the computer just fine. He could navigate online. He was pretty organized mentally. Where his organization broke down, in his writing, was where the focus of his violence was.

If you read the plays, look for his lack of focus with his anger. All the characters seem mad - not just one. There's no focus, so it all just gets caught and bounces around everywhere. There's no place for it to get out.

But again, this is all looking at it hindsight. Surely thousands of people write violent material everyday.

Art is a FORM of sublimation - it is a HEALTHY release for feelings of all kinds that you can't really deal with otherwise. Studies show that already boys in particular are feeling frustrated in their imaginations and creativity in school - art teachers constantly grapple with what images to allow.

But in full disclosure, one of my final projects was a guy tied to a tree disemboweled with ghost faces in... [ Read More (0.2k in body) ]

His writing dripped with anger....GROAN