MemeStreams | MemeStreams Discussion

Create an Account

This page contains all of the posts and discussion on MemeStreams referencing the following web page: Wikileaks and the Long Haul « Clay Shirky. You can find discussions on MemeStreams as you surf the web, even if you aren't a MemeStreams member, using the Threads Bookmarklet.

Wikileaks and the Long Haul « Clay Shirky
by Decius at 4:03 pm EST, Dec 6, 2010

When authorities can’t get what they want by working within the law, the right answer is not to work outside the law. The right answer is that they can’t get what they want...
If it’s OK for a democracy to just decide to run someone off the internet for doing something they wouldn’t prosecute a newspaper for doing, the idea of an internet that further democratizes the public sphere will have taken a mortal blow.

More from Glenn Greenwald:

The U.S. and its "friends" in the Western and business worlds are more than able and happy to severely punish anyone they want without the slightest basis in "law." That's what the lawless, Wild Western World is: political leaders punishing whomever they want without any limits, certainly without regard to bothersome concepts of "law." Anyone who doubts that should just look at what has been done to Wikileaks and Assange over the last week. In this series of events, there are indeed genuine and pernicious threats to basic freedom and security; they most assuredly aren't coming from WikiLeaks or Julian Assange.

RE: Wikileaks and the Long Haul « Clay Shirky
by Stefanie at 6:23 pm EST, Dec 6, 2010

Clay Shirky:
I don’t think such a law [Joseph Lieberman's proposed SHIELD law] should pass. I think the current laws, which criminalize the leaking of secrets but not the publishing of leaks, strike the right balance.

That's been my position all along. Not that I'm implying it's a simplistic issue, but the majority of the outcry should be directed at those who leaked, and that we have such porous government agencies, regarding sensitive information. I don't see Julian Assange as a hero, nor do I agree with WikiLeaks' decision to publish certain things just because they can. Still, I don't think that going after organizations such as WikiLeaks, or adopting new laws to do so, is the answer, assuming that those organizations are merely passive recipients of the sensitive information they choose to publish.

Clay Shirky:
The key, though, is that democracies have a process for creating such restrictions, and as a citizen it sickens me to see the US trying to take shortcuts. The leaders of Myanmar and Belarus, or Thailand and Russia, can now rightly say to us "You went after Wikileaks' domain name, their hosting provider, and even denied your citizens the ability to register protest through donations, all without a warrant and all targeting overseas entities, simply because you decided you don’t like the site. If that’s the way governments get to behave, we can live with that."

USA = China? No, but I don't think it's asking too much that we at least "walk the walk" ourselves, if we're attempting to influence other nations regarding civil liberties issues.