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This page contains all of the posts and discussion on MemeStreams referencing the following web page: Robotic Nation, by Marshall Brain. You can find discussions on MemeStreams as you surf the web, even if you aren't a MemeStreams member, using the Threads Bookmarklet.

Robotic Nation, by Marshall Brain
by Decius at 11:36 pm EDT, Aug 12, 2003

] The next step was autonomous, humanoid robots. The
] mechanics of walking were not simple, but Honda had
] proven that those problems could be solved with the
] creation of its ASIMO robot at the turn of the century.
] Sony and other manufacturers followed Honda's lead. Over
] the course of two decades, engineers refined this
] hardware and the software controlling it to the point
] where they could create humanoid bodyforms with the grace
] and precision of a ballerina or the mass and sheer
] strength of the Incredible Hulk.

Iclough's memeings about robots made me go back and look at this essay.

This was making the rounds a few weeks ago. I ignored it because he started off talking about McDonald's Kiosks. We had those in Murfreesboro in the early 90's. Hasn't gone anywhere. Not exciting...

However, a fully automated McDonalds is an easy thing to imagine. We (finally) can buy robotic lawn mowers. The primary problem with these things is battery power. As fuel cells become a reality robotic lawn mowers and vacuum cleaners will become common place in American homes. People will have their weekends free.

What is a combine but a big lawn mower? Robotic combines are already running at Texas A&M. The food gets automatically harvested.

Transportation? They have a Humvee at Georgia Tech that drives itself. This can be aided with the right kind of infrastructure in the roads. When the time comes, we'll build it. The food will move from the farm to the plant automatically. Its already processed automatically. Then it will move automatically to the store, where a kisok will take your order. Cooking it? Easy I think. I'm actually somewhat amazed that people still cook fries. The mechanical motion is so simple. They really only need a person there to make sure that nothing goes wrong... And we're off...

I agree with the author that we will see a lot of robotics in our lives in the next few decades. It will be an important growth industry. I also agree that honda's humanoid robot is a tremendous achievement.

However, this article gets several things wrong.

A leap of logic is made between humanoid robots and robots doing human jobs. Many human jobs are a lot more complex then we think. Cleaning a room is incredibly complex, when you consider how varied the environments can be, and the need to ID so many different kinds of objects, and sort them properly. This is a tremendous knowledge problem. I will admit that more computing power could help you tacle it, but its just an example. The point is that human's easily handle situations that are very complex to program because humans aren't computers. More on that below.

This article assumes that Moore's law will continue unabated. This is a bad assumption. Moore's law has a shelf life that will end in a decade or two. You can't get smaller then atoms, and no engineering breakthrough is going to fix th... [ Read More (0.4k in body) ]


 
RE: Robotic Nation, by Marshall Brain
by lclough at 9:07 am EDT, Aug 13, 2003

Decius wrote:
] ] The next step was autonomous, humanoid robots. The
] ] mechanics of walking were not simple, but Honda had
] ] proven that those problems could be solved with the
] ] creation of its ASIMO robot at the turn of the century.
] ] Sony and other manufacturers followed Honda's lead. Over
] ] the course of two decades, engineers refined this
] ] hardware and the software controlling it to the point
] ] where they could create humanoid bodyforms with the grace
] ] and precision of a ballerina or the mass and sheer
] ] strength of the Incredible Hulk.
]
] Iclough's memeings about robots made me go back and look at
] this essay.
]
] This was making the rounds a few weeks ago. I ignored it
] because he started off talking about McDonald's Kiosks. We had
] those in Murfreesboro in the early 90's. Hasn't gone anywhere.
] Not exciting...
]
] However, a fully automated McDonalds is an easy thing to
] imagine. We (finally) can buy robotic lawn mowers. The primary
] problem with these things is battery power. As fuel cells
] become a reality robotic lawn mowers and vacuum cleaners will
] become common place in American homes. People will have their
] weekends free.
]
] What is a combine but a big lawn mower? Robotic combines are
] already running at Texas A&M. The food gets automatically
] harvested.
]
] Transportation? They have a Humvee at Georgia Tech that drives
] itself. This can be aided with the right kind of
] infrastructure in the roads. When the time comes, we'll build
] it. The food will move from the farm to the plant
] automatically. Its already processed automatically. Then it
] will move automatically to the store, where a kisok will take
] your order. Cooking it? Easy I think. I'm actually somewhat
] amazed that people still cook fries. The mechanical motion is
] so simple. They really only need a person there to make sure
] that nothing goes wrong... And we're off...
]
] I agree with the author that we will see a lot of robotics in
] our lives in the next few decades. It will be an important
] growth industry. I also agree that honda's humanoid robot is a
] tremendous achievement.
]
] However, this article gets several things wrong.
]
] A leap of logic is made between humanoid robots and robots
] doing human jobs. Many human jobs are a lot more complex then
] we think. Cleaning a room is incredibly complex, when you
] consider how varied the environments can be, and the need to
] ID so many different kinds of objects, and sort them properly.
] This is a tremendous knowledge problem. I will admit that more
] computing power could help you tacle it, but its just an
] example. The point is that human's easily handle situations
] ... [ Read More (0.6k in body) ]


  
RE: Robotic Nation, by Marshall Brain
by Decius at 7:19 pm EDT, Aug 13, 2003

] Look at the "jobless" economic recovery in the United States.
] Productivity growth has outstripped production by a percentage
] point, so while GDP goes up, employment does not. And that's
] just due to increased efficiency from the application of
] information technology.

Ultimately this means that the cost of products goes down. Eventually you reach a point where people begin to consider cutting hours, because you can make ends meet with less money and would rather have the freedom.

I have a friend in Austin who works three days a week. She would much rather have the time then the money. I'd honestly like to do the same. Having time to work on projects like MemeStreams would be well worth a significant cut in salary. I know a lot of people who feel the same.

The barrier to this, usually, is employers. If they can have two people working half time instead of one person working full time, ultimately this is the same deal for them, but its hard to convince them to change the way they operate. So difficult, in fact, that the last time this occured it took a widespread social movement to make it happen.

I'm talking, of course, about the 30 hour work week. Which has a precident, the forty hour work week. I think this is where we are headed.

This is also another place where I think this author is wrong. The fact that this doesn't work for minimum wagers is basically a policy problem and not an economic problem. Minimum wage should be livable, based on a standard work week. Arguements to the contrary from well meaning conservatives are simply short sighted. To devalue labor is to devalue people. This is a barrier to automation. Its the cost of people that moves us toward robotics. Making people cheap mires us in the status quo. Look at China. A lot of the automation we use in construction and manufacturing simply doesn't exist there because the people are too cheap. Higher minimum wage spurs innovation which increases productivity and ultimately lowers the price of goods.


 
 
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