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This page contains all of the posts and discussion on MemeStreams referencing the following web page: I.B.M. Explores Shift of White-Collar Jobs Overseas. You can find discussions on MemeStreams as you surf the web, even if you aren't a MemeStreams member, using the Threads Bookmarklet.

I.B.M. Explores Shift of White-Collar Jobs Overseas
by Decius at 4:59 pm EDT, Jul 22, 2003

] "You can get crackerjack Java programmers in India right
] out of college for $5,000 a year versus $60,000 here,"
] said Stephanie Moore, vice president for outsourcing at
] Forrester Research. "The technology is such, why be in
] New York City when you can be 9,000 miles away with far
] less expense?"

This is a better article then the one I previous recommended, simply because the comments are, well, raw and uncut, and often quite arrogant. My favorite:

] "It's not about one shore or another shore," an I.B.M.
] spokeswoman, Kendra R. Collins, said. "It's about investing
] around the world, including the United States, to build
] capability and deliver value as defined by our customers."

Um, yes Kendra, we understand your motives. We're not dumb. However, Its ABOUT the macroeconomic impact of your strategy, something you ought to be thinking about. For example, drinking bottles of lye is a bad idea even IF you are helping your customers dispose of the lye, and therefore delivering value as they define it.

The last time I posted on this, Jeremy responded as follows:

] ] "He won't be able to have a career designing and building
] ] stuff because all those jobs have moved to India."
]
] So move to India already.
]
] Seriously, choosing one 'thing' and doing it repeatedly
] for decades on end. What's the term I'm looking for ...?
]
] Industrial age! That's it!
]
] Actually, that approach still applies, as long as your
] 'thing' happens to be learning.

Oh, if only things were so simple. There are several problems:

First: After studying computer engineering for 5 years at Georgia Tech, I'm honestly quite dismayed that my degree appears to have been useful for about 2 years after graduation. It is now extremely difficult to get good jobs in my chosen profession, and it looks as if that situation may never improve.

I might be exaggerating. 400,000 jobs overseas is far less then the margin between the estimated future growth in the need for computer professionals and estimated growth in the availability of computer professionals. However, I don't think the estimates that people still seem to be operating on take in to account the events of the last few years. I've seen people looking at the supply in horror (college admissions for said professions are way down), but not really adjusting their demand estimates. Basically, it remains to be seen.

Retrain? Should I go back to school for 5 more years, so that I can practice biology for another 2? Surely if people india can do CS they can do biology.

There are more problems...

The HR industry is set up to hire people who have degrees in particular professional fields. Our educational systems and dominate ideas about corporate management are simply not set up to support people engaged in continuous learning. So it may be extremely diff... [ Read More (0.2k in body) ]


 
RE: I.B.M. Explores Shift of White-Collar Jobs Overseas
by Jeremy at 11:24 pm EDT, Jul 22, 2003

MemeStreams should organize a 'happening' on this topic ...

Decius wrote:
] Oh, if only things were so simple. There are several problems:
] First: After studying computer engineering for 5 years at
] Georgia Tech, I'm honestly quite dismayed that my degree
] appears to have been useful for about 2 years after
] graduation. It is now extremely difficult to get good jobs in
] my chosen profession, and it looks as if that situation may
] never improve.

The problem with this problem is the fallacy of the "technical" degree program. No one who graduates from Harvard with an undergraduate degree in English literature should assume that the expert knowledge of Shakespeare acquired over the preceding four years will guarantee them a six figure salary until the end of their days. In the information age, the same applies to B.S. degree programs. As disappointing as it may be, choosing a profession is exactly the industrial age strategy I was talking about.

] ... computer professionals ...

The world is likely to have a need for 'computer professionals' well into the future, but the meaning may change over time. Seventy five years ago, the tools of the computer trade were paper, pencil, desk, and lamp. In another seventy five, silicon-based tools may seem as antiquated as the graphite-based tools do now.

] The HR industry is set up to hire people who have degrees in
] particular professional fields.

Often, the best jobs don't end up in the hands of HR staff; they are facilitated through social networks. The best jobs are not on HotJobs or craigslist. (The other day I was browsing craigslist and clicked through some of the job postings. Ugh. Bo-ring.)

] ... corporate management are simply not set up to
] support people engaged in continuous learning.

This may be common, but it is certainly not absolute. For management to not position the company as a 'learning organization' is to wish death on that company. How can you stay competitive as a firm? Who wants to work on a team that doesn't improve itself?

] I think the US is going to have serious problems maintaining
] their standard of living over the long term.

Somehow we managed to survive the industrial revolution, and the agricultural jobs didn't even bother to move overseas. They just disappeared as productivity increases made them unnecessary.


I.B.M. Explores Shift of White-Collar Jobs Overseas
by bucy at 12:57 pm EDT, Jul 22, 2003

] "You can get crackerjack Java programmers in India right
] out of college for $5,000 a year versus $60,000 here,"
] said Stephanie Moore, vice president for outsourcing at
] Forrester Research. "The technology is such, why be in
] New York City when you can be 9,000 miles away with far
] less expense?"

Ick ... someone else blogged a similar story a few weeks ago...


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