crankymessiah wrote:
] This is kinda funny, but at the same time..
]
] #1) Why is it in English?
] #2) Come now, is Bush really as bad as Hitler?
]
] and my favorite..
]
] #3) This poster is illegal in Germany. It's
] legal in America.

Sorry, but can we please avoid headlines that include profanity on Memestreams? I'm trying to get certain friends and family members to join the discussions here, but if they come in and see swear words, it's going to be an instant deal-breaker. I'm not saying that we should be Disney-qualified, but I would like to maintain a minimum level of civility.

Or do other Memestreams members disagree? I'm willing to go with the will of the community on this, so if most of Memestreams feels that profanity is okay in headlines under an "we're all adults here, deal with it", then I'll switch my own course accordingly, in terms of what types of people that I try to invite into the community.

Elonka

Sorry, I didn't post it. I just recommended it.

Elonka wrote:
] Sorry, but can we please avoid headlines that include
] profanity on Memestreams? I'm trying to get certain friends
] and family members to join the discussions here, but if they
] come in and see swear words, it's going to be an instant
] deal-breaker. I'm not saying that we should be
] Disney-qualified, but I would like to maintain a minimum level
] of civility.
]
] Or do other Memestreams members disagree? I'm willing to go
] with the will of the community on this, so if most of
] Memestreams feels that profanity is okay in headlines under an
] "we're all adults here, deal with it", then I'll switch my own
] course accordingly, in terms of what types of people that I
] try to invite into the community.

I don't know what to tell you. I can't stop people from cursing, I don't think its likely a culture that dosen't accept cursing will form, and I can't think of a reasonable way to code filtering abilities into MemeStreams that will not totally throw off our development roadmap. I don't know how to approach this problem.

In the future, we will likely provide the ability to apply filters to what content you see, giving you the ability to censor what you take in. Any filters would be determined by you, for you, and only apply to you. This is not currently on our roadmap. There are many things we have to do before we start working on features like that.

I refuse to type a single line of code that amounts to the implementation of censorship, but I have no problem doing things that allow people to censor what they see. As long as you are making those decisions for youself, and someone else is not making them for you, its fine. You get to decide how you want to raise your kids, I'm not going to tell you how to do it. If you want to censor what they see, fine. You want to censor what you see, fine. Its your right.

I just don't know how to approach this problem right now. Any way I can think of to enforce some type of "proper conduct code" goes against every belief I have in the way open communication systems should work. A technical approach could work, but we are not in a position at this time to implement one. I wouldn't know where to start. When the site internals are more mature, it will likely be a different story.

I don't expect the community to police itsself, in terms of its language, and nor should it. This is a free place. You can express whatever you want to express, however you want to express it, and you will be judged based upon it in the same way as in the real world. If someone curses all the time, and you don't like that, don't recommend their links or click thru them. They will not show up in the agent for you. As far as the main page goes, anything that makes it up there is, in theory, a reflection of the community. We have no way to directly influence the behavior of the community, nor should ... [ Read More (0.2k in body) ]

Rattle wrote:
] Elonka wrote:
] ] Sorry, but can we please avoid headlines that include
] ] profanity on Memestreams? I'm trying to get certain friends
] ] and family members to join the discussions here, but if they
] ] come in and see swear words, it's going to be an instant
] ] deal-breaker.
]
] I just don't know how to approach this problem right now. Any
] way I can think of to enforce some type of "proper conduct
] code" goes against every belief I have in the way open
] communication systems should work. A technical approach could
] work, but we are not in a position at this time to implement
] one. I wouldn't know where to start. When the site internals
] are more mature, it will likely be a different story.
]
] I don't expect the community to police itsself, in terms of
] its language, and nor should it. This is a free place. You
] can express whatever you want to express, however you want to
] express it, and you will be judged based upon it in the same
] way as in the real world. If someone curses all the time, and
] you don't like that, don't recommend their links or click thru
] them. They will not show up in the agent for you.
]

] Telling people on the system not to curse would be to start
] down a very slippery slope, at the bottom is censorship. I
] will not take that first step. I see your point of view, but
] I can't stray from my principles.

I hear you. :) And I agree, I wouldn't want to institute a policy of censorship or "moderators must approve threads" on Memestreams.

At the same time though, I don't think I'm out of line to ask that profanity cease. Just as with free speech giving someone the right to curse, at the same time, with free speech, I believe I have the right to speak up and say, "Cut it out!" :)

One possible technical solution (and yes, I heard you when you said that resources are tight), is to add a "squelch" option. So instead of simply trying to drop someone out of my sight by not recommending their posts (which would work but would take a *long* time), I could hasten the "output to /dev/null" process by clicking on a button that said, "I do not wish the reputation agent to show me any further links from this user." That would allow the choice to be mine as to what I did or didn't want to see. Right now though, I sometimes feel captive, like if I pull up the Agent and see a really offensive headline, I have no way to remove it from my screen -- my only options are to either endure it for a couple days until it eventually scrolls off, or else to simply avoid the Memestreams Agent entirely so as not to see them. With a "squelch" option though, the problem would be addressed (and I could always unsquelch people later). Another option would be to say "Squelch" post, meaning I didn't want to necessarily squelch everything that a particular user said, but that having seen the post once in my Agent, I was done with it, and didn't want the Agent to show it to me again.

I think this would be a good option to implement in *any* case, not just for the situations of, "I don't agree with what this person is saying," but also for the inevitable future of some Memestreams users using Memestreams as a forum to spew curses at the world (or to issue spam posts). I feel strongly that there needs to be a way to empower other Memestreams users to avoid those Memestreams members that they just plain don't want to hear from.

Elonka wrote:
] At the same time though, I don't think I'm out of line to ask
] that profanity cease. Just as with free speech giving someone
] the right to curse, at the same time, with free speech, I
] believe I have the right to speak up and say, "Cut it out!"
] :)

I didn't say you would be out of line to ask that profanity cease. I said that _I_, as an admin of the system, would be out of line to ask that profanity cease, and that I could do nothing for you in reference to it. You can tell people to "cut it out" all you want. If my limited understanding of human behavior is correct, it will not have the effect you desire though. People do not like being told how they should and should not express themselves.

] One possible technical solution (and yes, I heard you when you
] said that resources are tight), is to add a "squelch" option.
] So instead of simply trying to drop someone out of my sight by
] not recommending their posts (which would work but would take
] a *long* time), I could hasten the "output to /dev/null"
] process by clicking on a button that said, "I do not wish the
] reputation agent to show me any further links from this user."
] That would allow the choice to be mine as to what I did or
] didn't want to see. Right now though, I sometimes feel
] captive, like if I pull up the Agent and see a really
] offensive headline, I have no way to remove it from my screen
] -- my only options are to either endure it for a couple days
] until it eventually scrolls off, or else to simply avoid the
] Memestreams Agent entirely so as not to see them. With a
] "squelch" option though, the problem would be addressed (and I
] could always unsquelch people later). Another option would be
] to say "Squelch" post, meaning I didn't want to necessarily
] squelch everything that a particular user said, but that
] having seen the post once in my Agent, I was done with it, and
] didn't want the Agent to show it to me again.
]
] I think this would be a good option to implement in *any*
] case, not just for the situations of, "I don't agree with what
] this person is saying," but also for the inevitable future of
] some Memestreams users using Memestreams as a forum to spew
] curses at the world (or to issue spam posts). I feel strongly
] that there needs to be a way to empower other Memestreams
] users to avoid those Memestreams members that they just plain
] don't want to hear from.

Nothing has been done yet to give users the ability to tweak which users the agent shows content from beyond the capability of the circle system. Infact, to expand on that, nothing in the way of giving "active feedback" to the agent about what results its giving you has been implemented. Currently everything the agent does to determine what to show you is done passively. A feature much like what you just suggested has been discussed, and will make its way into the codebase. Most likely, in the next version of the agent. I can't give an ETA for it. Its dependent on a number of other things currently being worked on.

Elonka wrote:
] Right now though, I sometimes feel
] captive, like if I pull up the Agent and see a really
] offensive headline, I have no way to remove it from my screen
] -- my only options are to either endure it for a couple days
] until it eventually scrolls off, or else to simply avoid the
] Memestreams Agent entirely so as not to see them. Another option
] would be to say "Squelch" post, meaning I didn't want to
] necessarily squelch everything that a particular user said, but
] that having seen the post once in my Agent, I was done with it,
] and didn't want the Agent to show it to me again.

This comment is confusing to me. The agent defaults to "since last visit." This means that by default the agent only shows you content that has been posted since the last time you used the agent. Therefore there is no waiting for content to scroll off the agent. It scrolls off the second you stop using it.

The only way to break this that I am aware of is to visit the agent more then once every two hours.

Of course, content may reappear in your agent if it is rerecommended by someone else.

] The inevitable future of some Memestreams users using Memestreams
] as a forum to spew curses at the world (or to issue spam posts).

This will not be a problem. Such a person is unlikely to build up enough reputation capital to appear in your agent.

] Sorry, but can we please avoid headlines that include
] profanity on Memestreams? I'm trying to get certain friends
] and family members to join the discussions here, but if they
] come in and see swear words, it's going to be an instant
] deal-breaker. I'm not saying that we should be
] Disney-qualified, but I would like to maintain a minimum level
] of civility.

The original meme (and headline) is mine, because it accurately describes the content. I don't have much of a problem with "Same Sh_t Different Assh_le" but realistically what does that say? It says "Same Shit Different Asshole" .. the obfuscation is pointless when you know what is actually being said. Kinda like rappers using "ish" instead of "shit" .. ie - I can't really think of a meaningful self-censorship policy that protects someone from the content that I want to enter (which includes a stupid poster that says "Same Shit Different Asshole")..

I usually put a "NSFW" somewhere in the article if it's Not Safe For Work, but I don't consider a poster that says "Same Shit Different Asshole" Not Safe For Work. Anyway, with the amount of replies this meme has now, I expect other community members to weigh in with their opinions..

=darwin

Elonka wrote:
] I'm willing to go with the will of the community on this, so
] if most of Memestreams feels that profanity is okay in
] headlines under an "we're all adults here, deal with it", then
] I'll switch my own course accordingly, in terms of what types
] of people that I try to invite into the community.

I basically agree with everything that Nick has said.

MemeStreams is all about getting RAW access to what people are saying and thinking, without having it filtered through news media editors. People swear. People are going to swear on MemeStreams. If you want everything to be whitewashed, MemeStreams is not for you. I suggest CNN. They do that a lot better then we ever will.

The reputation system ought to help you avoid people who post things you don't like and build a subcommunity with people who share your values. There probably aren't enough people on MemeStreams right now for that to really be apparent. This system is designed for a much larger scale then it has reached, and there are seams that you can see because it hasn't filled in yet. More on this in my next post.

I agree that there needs to be a way to force someone into the agent or block someone out. This will happen, but its low on the list right now.

There are going to be speech policies. If its illegal, its not allowed. This should be obvious. I'm not sure what to do about pornography. This has already been a problem. Some people like it. Others don't. There are several things that could be done about it, but all of them are problematic and impossible to enforce. Right now I've kind of been playing it by ear. People who've publically posted things that are basically just porn and serve no other purpose have gotten angry responses from me. MemeStreams is not a porn site, and the stuff shouldn't be here unless its interesting for some other reason. This policy may become more lax as the site gets larger and speech policy becomes harder to enforce.

No speech policy will have anything to do with swearing. I'm going to have enough trouble with stuff like the above to bother with making sure that the site is church lady compliant.

Its perfectly fine to ask the community to stop swearing, but I don't think it will get you very far, but it might have an affect on some people.