Elonka wrote:
] Decius wrote:
] ]
] ] Its really affecting MemeStreams. We're all here and we're
] all
] ] posting and we know we all have different feelings about
] whats
] ] going on. We're NOT discussing. We can. The capability is
] ] there. The will is not. I sense that people are afraid to
] ] really engage this subject because they know that any
] engaged
] ] discourse is just going to devolve into bitter arguement.
]
] Pfft. I disagree, and take offense with the statement, "The
] will is not." The capability *is* here, and the will, and the
] discussions. I've already been going back and forth with
] another Memestreams member about the situation. He's more on
] the "dove" side, and I'm more on the "hawk" side, and we've
] been able to present our different views while simultaneously
] offering respect for the opinion of the other side. And
] Memestreams aside, I show no hesitation to enter into debates
] on this matter in offline venues (and do, on pretty much a
] daily basis).
]
] I think it *is* a good thing to encourage discussion, and
] sometimes Memestreams can be a good place for such a
] discussion, though more often it can be difficult to maintain
] a thread because Memestreams seems more focused on the
] capability to "discuss external links" rather than "discuss
] internal opinions." But for one of the main sysops of the
] site to post something implying that the members of this
] community are cowards for not discussing things to *his*
] satisfaction, I think is inappropriate. Let's go more for the
] carrot instead of the stick, hmm?

I kinda have to agree with Elonka. There is a fair amount of discussion going on within Memestreams, and elsewhere. I think the polarization is starting to melt a bit. I have found that within my circle of friends and colleagues, the hard lines are starting to blur. People who were more 'dove' (great analogy!) are coming to the middle. People who were more 'hawk' are questioning the administration's actions.

It *is* an interesting time. And people *are* frightened. The thing that I find most dispicable in this moment is the complete lack of LEADERSHIP amongst anyone. Everyone has been more focused on spewing opinions, but I've yet to see a calm head emerge with a direction or a plan that isn't simply "we're in hot pursuit". It's to be expected that the populace gets polarized in this environment because there's no one to keep them from overreacting. Thankfully, the amount of foot dragging has helped people to start killing off their fog and start thinking on their own a bit about what's going on.

Props to Tony Blair for being the closest thing to this right now, but his visibility in the US is basically reduced to playing Ed McMahon to Dubya's Johnny Carson.

RE: Pseudo patriotism vs. American values