flynn23 wrote:

Abu Dhabi buying Nova Chemicals at bargain-basement prices on Monday is a sign of things to come, with financial power quickly being transferred over to the world's creditors – namely sovereign wealth funds – and away from the world's debtors.

Guess who the American Taxpayer became over the last 9 months?

9 months? NINE MONTHS??? Try since 1984.

The problem is, no one in this country understands it. We're Brazil or Argentina in the 70's. We don't understand that in our "Me me me! Buy buy buy!" insanity, the rest of the world owns us and that we have spent the last 25 years getting deeper and deeper in hock.

Mike the Usurper wrote:

flynn23 wrote:

Abu Dhabi buying Nova Chemicals at bargain-basement prices on Monday is a sign of things to come, with financial power quickly being transferred over to the world's creditors – namely sovereign wealth funds – and away from the world's debtors.

Guess who the American Taxpayer became over the last 9 months?

9 months? NINE MONTHS??? Try since 1984.

The problem is, no one in this country understands it. We're Brazil or Argentina in the 70's. We don't understand that in our "Me me me! Buy buy buy!" insanity, the rest of the world owns us and that we have spent the last 25 years getting deeper and deeper in hock.

No I completely agree with you. I was framing the fact that the American Taxpayer got the ultimate tab when Wall Street (and specifically Goldman Sachs) grifted Congress with the TARP bill. It effectively leverages our tax burden to pay off the losses of Wall Street.

So when he says that debtors will lose power, it's already happened. And it's us. Not the Treasury.

flynn23 wrote:

Mike the Usurper wrote:

flynn23 wrote:

Abu Dhabi buying Nova Chemicals at bargain-basement prices on Monday is a sign of things to come, with financial power quickly being transferred over to the world's creditors – namely sovereign wealth funds – and away from the world's debtors.

Guess who the American Taxpayer became over the last 9 months?

9 months? NINE MONTHS??? Try since 1984.

The problem is, no one in this country understands it. We're Brazil or Argentina in the 70's. We don't understand that in our "Me me me! Buy buy buy!" insanity, the rest of the world owns us and that we have spent the last 25 years getting deeper and deeper in hock.

No I completely agree with you. I was framing the fact that the American Taxpayer got the ultimate tab when Wall Street (and specifically Goldman Sachs) grifted Congress with the TARP bill. It effectively leverages our tax burden to pay off the losses of Wall Street.

So when he says that debtors will lose power, it's already happened. And it's us. Not the Treasury.

Ah, misunderstood then.

The part that drives me crazy about this is, there are companies from this country that work both sides of the fence. They set up overseas subsidiaries (or move the parent company to Bermuda and work domestic subsidiaries), cash in on the overseas tax, labor and environmental lack of rules, then pocket the cash as overseas holdings, driving this thing farther off a cliff while filling their pockets.

And as Goldman-Sachs is demonstrating right now with a proposed $2.9 billion in bonuses this quarter (after getting paid at least $13 billion by AIG) that they don't seem to understand there are a few hundred million people out here where things aren't so good. And that they just stole our money to hideously overpay their guys who, without the AIG bailout, would have lost another $10 billion? Get out the pitchforks and torches.

Mike the Usurper wrote:

flynn23 wrote:

Mike the Usurper wrote:

flynn23 wrote:

Abu Dhabi buying Nova Chemicals at bargain-basement prices on Monday is a sign of things to come, with financial power quickly being transferred over to the world's creditors – namely sovereign wealth funds – and away from the world's debtors.

Guess who the American Taxpayer became over the last 9 months?

9 months? NINE MONTHS??? Try since 1984.

The problem is, no one in this country understands it. We're Brazil or Argentina in the 70's. We don't understand that in our "Me me me! Buy buy buy!" insanity, the rest of the world owns us and that we have spent the last 25 years getting deeper and deeper in hock.

No I completely agree with you. I was framing the fact that the American Taxpayer got the ultimate tab when Wall Street (and specifically Goldman Sachs) grifted Congress with the TARP bill. It effectively leverages our tax burden to pay off the losses of Wall Street.

So when he says that debtors will lose power, it's already happened. And it's us. Not the Treasury.

Ah, misunderstood then.

The part that drives me crazy about this is, there are companies from this country that work both sides of the fence. They set up overseas subsidiaries (or move the parent company to Bermuda and work domestic subsidiaries), cash in on the overseas tax, labor and environmental lack of rules, then pocket the cash as overseas holdings, driving this thing farther off a cliff while filling their pockets.

And as Goldman-Sachs is demonstrating right now with a proposed $2.9 billion in bonuses this quarter (after getting paid at least $13 billion by AIG) that they don't seem to understand there are a few hundred million people out here where things aren't so good. And that they just stole our money to hideously overpay their guys who, without the AIG bailout, would have lost another $10 billion? Get out the pitchforks and torches.

I completely agree and that's why I was vocal about the whole approach to TARP was fundamentally flawed. They should've let those institutions fail. Yes, it would've been cataclysmic when everyone's bank and investment co's went under, but the FDIC could've been used as the instrument to make sure that people got their money, rather than just giving it to a system that fucked you and will fuck you again without even thinking of it.

When he says that there may be a chant of America First, I'm thinking the very first thing will be requiring companies to keep their corporate tax bases inside the fence, to try and wrangle away what you just described. There have already been a few corporations that have gotten pressure to do this, and they've threatened to move or they just moved (see Halliburton). This is the real threat of globalization. Why off shore your labor when you can off shore everything? Do you think the US really has the best environment for HQ'ing a company? Really?