Decius wrote:
] ] Nokia on Tuesday said it's working with Hewlett-Packard
] ] to let customers print content from their cell phones.
]
] Can anyone think of a good application for this? I'm stumped.

Absolutely. Take a look at the market being targeted by Location Based Services. The most quoted sample use for it is that you store in your preferences, "Notify me whenever I'm within 0.2 miles of a Starbucks." Your phone can not only notify you, but Starbucks can provide you with a coupon for $0.50 off any coffee of $5 or more. *smirk* Being able to print out a coupon would certainly be helpful.

You might also want to find the best 4 star steak restaurant within 20 miles of your current location. If you need a map or driving directions to get from point A to point B, isn't it much easier to read and later reference a piece of paper, rather than a phone that keeps turning itself off to save power? Sure, we're talking about absolute luxuries here, but that's what the United States is all about! Stuff you don't need but have to buy!

Dolemite

Dolemite wrote:
] Being able to print out a coupon would certainly be
] helpful.

Would it? If they SMSed it to me, why can't I SMS it back to them to claim it? Better yet, why can't I send it to the cash register over bluetooth. The hardware on Starbuck's side isn't going to be more expensive then what they'd need to prevent paper coupons from being copied. Furthermore, I'm not going to have to replace little rolls of paper in my phone all the time.

] If you need a map or driving directions to get from point A to
] point B, isn't it much easier to read and later reference a
] piece of paper, rather than a phone that keeps turning itself
] off to save power?

This is a better one, but I'm not sold. You paper isn't going to be any bigger or higher res then your screen. In fact, versus newer color phones it will probably be lower fidelity, and you can zoom around the map. It sounds like the problem is that your phone is shutting off. You should be able to tell it not to. (My last Ericson had this annoying habit of automatically returning to the main menu if you left it in the phone directory for too long. Too long being about 30 seconds, so if you're in the car and trying to look up a phone number it was basically useless. I've gotten a Nokia again.) Bad UI is not an excuse to create more bad UI.

Decius wrote:
] Dolemite wrote:
] ] Being able to print out a coupon would certainly be
] ] helpful.
]
] Would it? If they SMSed it to me, why can't I SMS it back to
] them to claim it? Better yet, why can't I send it to the cash
] register over bluetooth. The hardware on Starbuck's side isn't
] going to be more expensive then what they'd need to prevent
] paper coupons from being copied. Furthermore, I'm not going to
] have to replace little rolls of paper in my phone all the
] time.

HP gets the majority of their profit from the consumables division. They want you to replace the paper rolls in your phone all the time! I never said that I was an advocate of it, just telling you what the example applications are that the Telcos think you'll want. Maybe I should have told you about their ideas that they'll send you coupons for other things that they think you might like. That's right, SMS spam. woohoo! It's no wonder that I requested to stop working with Telcos.

Starbuck's was probably a bad example since they're wired to the internet in many locations and more likely to have a full time connection. Think instead of other places, like a movie theater or a Mom & Pop diner. Paper is simply a bridge that allows old technology companies to provide new technology benefits and access. How much do you think a bluetooth cash register would cost? Or how much is the Telco going to charge that company for an SMS gateway? Remember, it's much easier for you, the consumer, to pay for the bridging technology. If a company has to pay for the bridging technology, it enters into the ROI equation, where there needs to be an increase in revenue or in asset efficiency. The coupons may bring in more people, but probably just enough to offset the discount of the coupons. The problem with LBS is that the provider will hold the keys to the gate - you can't offer a service unless you pay the provider to let you. Providers understand this and are looking for ways to market services that appeal to both sides - the consumers who drive the demand and the businesses that will pay to provide a service.

] It sounds like the problem is
] that your phone is shutting off. You should be able to tell it
] not to. (My last Ericson had this annoying habit of
] automatically returning to the main menu if you left it in the
] phone directory for too long. Too long being about 30 seconds,
] so if you're in the car and trying to look up a phone number
] it was basically useless. I've gotten a Nokia again.) Bad UI
] is not an excuse to create more bad UI.

True, but some people just feel more comfortable printing something out and looking at is versus the screen. I'm not saying that I'd use it - I'm the type who will have printed out MapQuest maps before even leaving the house. All I'm saying is that this is one possibility that the consumer base will see value in. Those of us on memestreams are not the target demographic to the Telco/Provider, we're the early adopters. In the customer life cycle, we're the ones who pay for the initial implementation, but also become a liability as the mainstream adopters feel that if we like it, it must be too hard for them. There's a book that addresses this, called "Crossing the Chasm," that explains why this chasm between early adoption and mainstream exists, but you just got my synopsis... if the geeks like it, then it must be too hard for Average Joe to use.

Dolemite

Dolemite wrote:
] HP gets the majority of their profit from the consumables
] division. They want you to replace the paper rolls in your
] phone all the time!

Oh, I know it makes sense for them. That doesn't mean it'll fly.

] How much do you think a bluetooth cash
] register would cost?

Conservatively, I could produce this for under $200 in bulk. Its a subset of the electronics in the cellphone.

] Remember, it's much easier for you, the consumer, to pay for
] the bridging technology.

Is it? Only if you can convince me to agree to buy a printerphone.

BTW, coupons are not a good thing to have people printing, because what you can print, you can copy. You have to control the scarcity of coupons or you can't control the costs of the promotion. The only way to control the scarcity of coupons that you print is with barcodes and a little bit of cryptography (same way I was going to sell phreaknic tickets online). The gear for that is going to cost about the same as a similar terminal using bluetooth. Thats why I don't see a cost savings with paper.

] There's a book that addresses this, called
] "Crossing the Chasm," that explains why this chasm between
] early adoption and mainstream exists, but you just got my
] synopsis... if the geeks like it, then it must be too hard
] for Average Joe to use.

There is some truth to the points you're making here, but I don't think they apply in this specific case. You know, I think this would make a good bet for longbets.com, although I don't have a grand that I could afford to wager on it. :)

Decius wrote:

] ] How much do you think a bluetooth cash
] ] register would cost?
]
] Conservatively, I could produce this for under $200 in bulk.
] Its a subset of the electronics in the cellphone.

A cash register for under $200? If you can mass produce those things, you'll have a lot of customers lining up to buy your products. A $200 cash register today will get you a calculator and a lock box. Remember, too, that it's more than just a bluetooth receiver in the register, it's a software change that will accept input from the transmitter and process it through logic so that you don't get a 110% discount. This is where the coupon will at least have to be processed by human logic - hopefully it's not some slacker who doesn't care about his job, at least from the business' point of view.

] ] Remember, it's much easier for you, the consumer, to pay for
]
] ] the bridging technology.
]
] Is it? Only if you can convince me to agree to buy a
] printerphone.

Let me rephrase this as I made a mistake in that statement. It's *cheaper* for you, the consumer, to pay for the technology. This changes once you cross the chasm into mainstream acceptance...

] BTW, coupons are not a good thing to have people printing,
] because what you can print, you can copy. You have to control
] the scarcity of coupons or you can't control the costs of the
] promotion.

Apparently you've never worked for a pizza delivery place. Rule number one, never ask for the coupons when you deliver the pizza. Why? If the customer still has the coupon, they are more likely to repeat the order. Coupons are simply a catchy way of advertising so that the consumer thinks they are getting a special deal. As a business owner, I'd love it if you printed off a $0.50 off coupon 30 times and gave it to 29 of your friends. That's more business in the long run for me.

] The only way to control the scarcity of coupons
] that you print is with barcodes and a little bit of
] cryptography (same way I was going to sell phreaknic tickets
] online). The gear for that is going to cost about the same as
] a similar terminal using bluetooth. Thats why I don't see a
] cost savings with paper.

You're thinking in terms of gift certificates, which do need to be controlled. Cash vouchers are separate from coupons, which give a specific amount of discount towards a limited number of items to purchase.

We're getting way off topic, though.

I agree that from my point of view and definitely yours as well, having a printer on a phone is like having a PDA with a string dispenser so that you can tie one on your finger as a reminder. It doesn't make sense to me, but it doesn't have to. Paying $20 for a white t-shirt that has a Tommy Hilfiger label on it doesn't make sense to me, either, but it has been accepted as mainstream. Perhaps part of the marketing for crossing the chasm is to say, "This is so simplistic, hackers would never use it." I guess we'll find out one of these days.

Dolemite

Dolemite wrote:
] A cash register for under $200?

Oh, no, sorry, just a box that grabs cryptographic coupons over bluetooth and verifies them. You still have to have the cash register. The startbucks guy still has to press the coupon button.

] Apparently you've never worked for a pizza delivery place.

It depends on the margins in your business. If you are operating way above cost then you can give away 50 cents most of the time and its no big deal. Grocery stores operate at about a penny per item, so 50 cent coupons are a major loss. They make up on it because you buy a lot of other stuff at the same time. McDonalds had quarterly losses a few years ago because they ran a promotion where you had tabs on your drink cups that gave you free food if you could correctly answer a question about a disney film. They ran the numbers assuming a random distribution of correct answers, but in reality most customers knew the answers to the questions, and there were web sites that offered all of them. So they lost a bundle.

] I agree that from my point of view and definitely yours as
] well, having a printer on a phone is like having a PDA with a
] string dispenser so that you can tie one on your finger as a
] reminder.

Yes, I agree with this. Thing is that if I store the SMS messages in my phone they will remind me just as well. Studies, however, will probably show that peices of paper work better for most people. Thats where I may loose the wager.

I don't think this is the application envisioned. It's more likely professional services types. Like real estate, mobile sales, etc. People that rely on information that is more likely to be distributed via paper. I agree that this is a bridging technology, and as such, is likely to not even be worth developing. The other thing I'd like to point out is that it's marketing FUD. I doubt Nokia or HP (or anyone for that matter) will actually PRODUCE a product. It's more just flak to boost a stock price right before the execs execute their Rule 145 sales.