Decius wrote:
I much enjoyed this article.

My problem with it is that it looks like a shill piece written by someone who wants to paint these failing automakers in a good light so that people won't be upset by the massive waste of money that the bailout is.

We're not seeing that 17 billion dollars again. I've heard dozens of people saying it just won't do what they want it to do, which, if this is true, means the execs are just looking to have one last "profitable" quarter while they get their personal finances girded against the backlash of what they've done. Whatcha wanna bet these guys liquidate a large amount of their holdings between here and March?

Thanks, Bush.

I Love Lamp wrote:
I also enjoyed this article. I liked how counter-examples were given for each 'myth'. Also, it seems to me, that although US car manufacturers are making feeble attempts at making cars consumers want, they already have a tainted brand (as I see it).

I don't follow your point because Mazda is a Japanese company and VW is German. Is there an American car in this category? It doesn't sound like you can get a 5 door Ford Focus anymore. The Pontiac Vibe doesn't count because its basically a Toyota Matrix. The Aveo is built by Daewoo. What gives?

As an aside, I had no idea that the Rabbit had more horse power. You wouldn't guess that from Mazda's "zoom zoom" marketing. Of course, the speed 3 has more horse power than the GTI (at the price of being a bit less refined).

Decius wrote:

I Love Lamp wrote:
I also enjoyed this article. I liked how counter-examples were given for each 'myth'. Also, it seems to me, that although US car manufacturers are making feeble attempts at making cars consumers want, they already have a tainted brand (as I see it).

I don't follow your point because Mazda is a Japanese company and VW is German. Is there an American car in this category? It doesn't sound like you can get a 5 door Ford Focus anymore. The Pontiac Vibe doesn't count because its basically a Toyota Matrix. The Aveo is built by Daewoo. What gives?

As an aside, I had no idea that the Rabbit had more horse power. You wouldn't guess that from Mazda's "zoom zoom" marketing. Of course, the speed 3 has more horse power than the GTI (at the price of being a bit less refined).

I guess i lumped Mazda into the "US" group due to Ford dealers selling them. www.ford.com has a 'show room' and Mazda is included. But yeah, you get the point...

I Love Lamp wrote:
I also enjoyed this article. I liked how counter-examples were given for each 'myth'. Also, it seems to me, that although US car manufacturers are making feeble attempts at making cars consumers want, they already have a tainted brand (as I see it).

Found an American. The Saturn Astra.

- 16k MSRP - I think you have to upgrade if you want A/C
- 24/32 City/Hwy - FTW, and people say American cars guzzle gas...
- 138 HP 1.8L ECOTEC DOHC - Oh, thats why.

Edumunds seemed to like it... It turns out its a rebadged Opel. Opel is a German company but they've been owned by GM since 1929. Does that make this car and American car or a German car?

I Love Lamp wrote:
Thoughts?

Neither of those is a "cheap" car. The Tata is a "cheap" car, and no one here is even trying to sell something like it because, hohoho, no one else is doing it so there's no pressure to deliver. If they did, they'd likely sell it for a mere 10-15% under what the "cheapest" car currently is, which would be more than twice what a Tata should cost.