MemeStreams | MemeStreams Discussion

Create an Account

This page contains all of the posts and discussion on MemeStreams referencing the following web page: RE: White House Report Details Iraq's Efforts to Block U.N. Inspections. You can find discussions on MemeStreams as you surf the web, even if you aren't a MemeStreams member, using the Threads Bookmarklet.

RE: White House Report Details Iraq's Efforts to Block U.N. Inspections
by Elonka at 7:19 pm EST, Jan 23, 2003

Rattle wrote:
] Elonka wrote:
] ] A valid concern... Then again, those weapons could be given
] ] to Al Qaeda regardless of whether we attack or not.
]
] And they may already have. Who knows?
]
] ] An even bigger decision factor with me, has to do with the
] ] stance of Iraq's military against us. They're already
] ] shooting at us, and have been for years. If I were Bush, I
] ] would wait for the U.N. Inspector official report next week,
] ] give the State of the Union, and then wait for the next time
] ] the Iraqis fire at one of our planes (or do a radar lock in
] ] preparation for firing), and then I'd start moving troops
] ] in.
] ]
] ] As you can see, I'm definitely on the "hawk" side of the
] ] dove/hawk debate. The main thing that does give me pause
] ] though, is that I wonder, "Okay, if we attack Iraq, just what
] ] exactly is the mission?" Are we going in to prove that the
] ] WMD are there? Is our goal to kick Saddam out of the country?
] ] Change the government? Enforce a free election? I mean, if
] ] Bush were to order the attack now I'd still support it, but I
] ] still have misgivings. Before giving my *full* support to an
] ] invasion, I personally would want to know, "How will we know
] ] when we've won??"
]
] I guess I'd be a dove.. I got peace turned up so loud.
]
] I can't support unilateral military actions. I can't support
] military actions without a clear goal. Too many unanswered
] questions.

"peace turned up so loud..." Heh, nice way of putting it!

How did you feel about invading Afghanistan? Do you think we did the right thing, kicking out the Taliban after September 11th?

Elonka :)

RE: White House Report Details Iraq's Efforts to Block U.N. Inspections
by Rattle at 8:40 pm EST, Jan 23, 2003

Elonka wrote:
] "peace turned up so loud..." Heh, nice way of putting it!

Referrence to one of my favorite Frank Black songs. "I need peace", its off the first Frank Black and the Catholics album. The "I got peace turned up so loud" thing has found its way into my frequently used colloquialisms. It fits my attitude well of late.

Lately every time war related issues come up I just keep hearing "I need peace, I got peace turned up so loud.." ringing in my head. Shrug.

Anyway...

] How did you feel about invading Afghanistan? Do you think we
] did the right thing, kicking out the Taliban after September
] 11th?

Well, a large part of me refuses to believe that its ever right to wage war.. Of course, I realise that view is not practical. But I also refuse to "turn off" that gut reaction. I want that gut reaction to stay there. If for no other reason then to keep my heart in check with my head.. I want to make sure I'm on the side of peace, and I need to be talked into war, not the other way around. I view it as a moral imperative. If that makes any sence.

At least in the case of Afghanistan, we were attacking the home base of the group that had just attacked the US. It was not a preemptive attack. It was a fully justifiable reaction to an attack. I could argue that we screwed up Afganistan because we didn't get Bin Laden, Mohammed Omar, Ahmed al-Hawsawi, etc.. Its unclear exactly how much damage we did to Al Queda in the process. They have not attacked again, so we likely did a lot to break up their organization. Good for us. We have every right to defend ourself.

In the case of Iraq, I think we need more evidence before we roll in guns blazing. A clearly defined goal too. I want to know what we think Iraq is going to look like _after_ we remove Saddam. I'm not sure what our goals are right now. We need the world on our side. I don't see the level of support at home or abroad to justify killing thousands of people. And that _is_ what war comes down to, killing shitloads of people. Most of which will never see it coming. That just dosen't sit right with me, at least not with the lack of support currently present for such actions.

I don't like Saddam. I would love to see him ousted. He is a scumbag who does not in any way fit my image of what a leader should be. I _hate_ dictators. (Yes, I know this is in stark contrast with how I used to joke around about my plans to take over the world..) And it really sounds like he is hurting his people more then helping them.. But in this situation, I need to be able to either condone either the ends or the means. I certainly don't condone the means, I detest war.. And the ends are unclear.

Support of the gobal community would be enough to swing me over to the hawk side. Clear evidence of WMD would be enough to swing me over to the hawk side. For now, I got peace turned up so loud.. :P