Decius wrote:
] ] Proponents of the machines assert that any invasion of
] ] privacy is not alarming because there's not much privacy
] ] left to invade. Grocery stores already track customers'
] ] personal information with loyalty cards, for example.
]
] Bars in Northern California start collecting your detailed
] personal information in the process of doing an age check. The
] arguement above is particularly disturbing.

I have to disagree with the grocery store analogy, since you're not required to use a loyalty card - you can always pay the artificially inflated "full price" of an item. (werd to Publix and Piggly Wiggly, who don't use cards at all - at least here in TN) Additionally, there's no verification when you sign up for the loyalty cards - you fill out a form and take the card. All the store would be able to track would be a spending pattern for one person, but not have any clue who that person really is if, say, they filled out their form as John Doe at 100 Main Street.

The real privacy issue is not in tracking a person at one location, but in matching data from multiple locations. I don't want people to know that I went to Blockbuster, rented Brazil and then went to Kroger for 3 cans of nitrous oxide enriched whipped cream. Somebody may think that I'm "doing drugs" when in fact I just invited a bunch of people over for movies and pie.

Dolemite
aka John Doe
aka Lex Luthor

Dolemite wrote:
] All the store would be able to track would be
] a spending pattern for one person, but not have any clue who
] that person really is if, say, they filled out their form as
] John Doe at 100 Main Street.

only if you pay cash all the time. The first time you pay with a debit card or credit card, you're now 'tagged' to that loyalty card.

Frankly, I don't give a shit. If Kroger wants to know that I buy spicy hot chicken tenders and beer three times a week, so be it. Fact is, if they offered me a bulk discount for annualized purchases, I'd take it. Chances are that data warehouse is so friggin huge that it would be hard to find AN individual's buying habits anyways.

] The real privacy issue is not in tracking a person at one
] location, but in matching data from multiple locations. I
] don't want people to know that I went to Blockbuster, rented
] Brazil and then went to Kroger for 3 cans of nitrous oxide
] enriched whipped cream. Somebody may think that I'm "doing
] drugs" when in fact I just invited a bunch of people over for
] movies and pie.

This is probably already happening. Do you think conglomerates share data with themselves? Do you think the continuing consolidation of corporate enterprise will amount to this? Do you think someone like Micro$oft is salivating at devising a central database service to assist 'business customers' with collecting this data?

flynn23 wrote:
] Frankly, I don't give a shit. If Kroger wants to know that I
] buy spicy hot chicken tenders and beer three times a week, so
] be it. Fact is, if they offered me a bulk discount for
] annualized purchases, I'd take it. Chances are that data
] warehouse is so friggin huge that it would be hard to find AN
] individual's buying habits anyways.

Ah, but you see, you have a choice in this matter - be a tracked patron or remain an anonymous, yet higher paying, patron. The only choice given in these bars mentioned in the story is to be tracked or leave.

] This is probably already happening. Do you think conglomerates
] share data with themselves? Do you think the continuing
] consolidation of corporate enterprise will amount to this? Do
] you think someone like Micro$oft is salivating at devising a
] central database service to assist 'business customers' with
] collecting this data?

Fortunately, from some people I've talked to that worked for Kroger corporate, they're not really sure what for and how to use the data yet. Yet being the operative word.

My point is simply that you not caring whether you're tracked shouldn't automatically make it ok to track me.

Dolemite