Mike the Usurper wrote:

dc0de wrote:
If you like your rights... you might want to review the links in the article...

Well I didn't really want to do this, but this is as good a time as any. As someone running for public office, this issue is a complete crock. I don't agree with microstamping. It's an enormous pain, expensive to retool, but is it a "tax" on legal gun owners? Hell no. A tax means the government gets something out of it, and in either case, the government makes no money off the exchange, in fact if anything any additional costs would get passed to the buyer, with no money going to the government, so calling this a tax is garbage.

I DO agree with serialization. Is it an increase in the cost of ammo? Slightly, but marginal at most. For law enforcement, it's a boon. Suddenly you can track where the ammo was sold. You become capable of determining not just caliber, but you can start pinning locations, and that helps track down the people who used the ammo illegally.

More than that, the same people who oppose anything like this oppose things that make sense like doing ballistics checks on all new guns pre-sale. "It's too expensive. They don't mean anything." I have news for you, ballistics evidence has been getting convictions in criminal courts for close to a century. If it doesn't mean anything, millions of people are in, or have been in, jails improperly. I don't buy that, and neither do any of the lawyers of cops I know. Is it expensive? Again, no. A couple of bucks to test fire new guns is negligible at most.

I like my rights. I like them a lot. But serialization of ammo is at most a negligible cost, and a firm step in the right direction for finding and sending people who commit gun crimes to jail. Does this deal with the 100 million guns out there already? No. It addresses the 5 million new guns added to that total each year. That is significant and useful.

Congratulations on supporting the rights of sociopaths everywhere by blocking things that can lead to their capture.

Mike -
Well, you make a few good points, but completely miss on some others.

Point #1
"Is it an increase in the cost of ammo? Slightly, but marginal at most."

What about those of us who handload/reload? We can't serialize, or etch, so now it's illegal to do something we've done for years? We have to destroy our existing ammo at our own cost?

I currently reload .45cal at a COST of approximately $0.05 per round. The cheapest that I can purchase rounds today, is $0.14/round. I spent my money to purchase my reloading equipment,Legally, so that I can save money, not spend MORE. ANY COST that increases, will be MORE money out of my pocket. With these laws, it would be illegal for me to reload, cast, or other wise use my equipment. Serializing will remove my ability to SAVE money, and shoot often. No one has yet talked about how this will effect the muzzle loading communities either. I would also be forced to purchase ammunition from a limited set of ammunition manufacturers, a fact that will cause bottlenecks in the supply chain, and causing ammo prices to rise even higher. Ammo manufacturers are already closing their factories in states that are requiring serialization, due to the high costs of retooling. They are also looking at refusing to sell to other states where it is a requirement. Retooling the manufacturing lines is an expensive option, and there are issues with safety where the serialization lasers and reloading systems will need to be separated, as the laser and the powder simply don't play well together. (think big boom.)

There is little proof that the this will actually help find out anything about the shooter, and less proof that the serial number will actually survive the firing, impact and forensics process. It has already been proven that the rifle calibers will NOT survive the process.

Point #2
"You become capable of determining not just caliber, but you can start pinning locations, and that helps track down the people who used the ammo illegally."

This is a meaningless statement. Caliber is easily determined when you obtain a recovered slug. Go to your local range, and ask them to show you the recovered rounds from their traps. You can, as an amateur, discover 90% of the recovered slugs caliber, with a caliper.

It is myopic to think that tracking down people who use ammo illegally will be valid. You think that by passing these laws that law abiding people will then go out and kill people? The criminals who use weapons to invoke terror on our cities will simply go purchase (on the newly created black market), my old reloading gear, and cast, create, and shoot their own ammunition. You'll have made their lives easier, and ours harder. But I guess as a non-gun owner, you don't care about that. You see this as a way to pander to the left.

Point #3
"More than that, the same people who oppose anything like this oppose things that make sense like doing ballistics checks on all new guns pre-sale."

I completely disagree. I am FIRMLY in agreement with ballistics testing all weapons, from the FACTORY. In fact, I have a round that I have fired into a trap for every weapon I own, in the unlikely event it is stolen. I will provide the police with the image of the weapon, the serial numbers of the frame and barrel, as well as the ballistics slug and fired casings, so they can catch the criminal that has stolen my weapon. The NIBIN and IBIS systems are ALREADY in place to assist in this activity. Any additional serialization is a costly and futile effort that penalizes those of us who shoot for sport, hobby, and enjoyment, and removes the ability to handload, reload, and cast our own rounds. It will also remove the Skeet and Trap shooting sports, as these weapons and ammo will also have to be serialized. Most of the Skeet and Trap shooters that I know, reload their own shells as an effort to save money.

Point #4
"But serialization of ammo is at most a negligible cost, and a firm step in the right direction for finding and sending people who commit gun crimes to jail."

Hogwash. Criminals will either steal the serialized ammo, or simply make their own. The NIBIN and IBIS databases were already created to track those weapons that are on the black market, and serialization of ammo is like taggets in explosives. It simply doesn't work. What are you going to do when a criminal takes some microstamped casings from one law abiding person's day at the firing range, and drops them at a crime scene, while shooting handloaded ammo from their defiled and older blackmarket weapon? You're going to have the police chasing their tail, in the wrong direction, and not using the tools that they already have to stop these criminals. (See NIBIN and IBIS)

Point #5
"Congratulations on supporting the rights of sociopaths everywhere by blocking things that can lead to their capture."

Rights are rights, even sociopaths have rights. I'm not supporting theirs any more or less than your right to burn a flag. I served my country in the military to support your rights to say any and all of this. Pandering like this is another reason I don't like these types of Political statements. It's akin to saying, "What? You don't support the laws that will help stop pedophiles?, you pedophile lover..." it's sophomoric, useless, and exactly what I expect from a politician.

However, no legislation that claims to be for the common good, that actually will not PERFORM any common good, is a penalty. One that makes activities that I consider a sport, entertainment, and a way of life in my country, should be bandied about with such little regard.

I actually support the death penalty, for anyone who uses a firearm in the committing of a crime, or is committed of a aggravated rape, premeditated murder, or other heinous crime. It's time to TOUGHEN our judicial system. It solves our overcrowded prison issues, our "firearms" issues, and make people respect the laws we already have. Making more laws simply spends more money, we need LESS government, not more.

RE: Microstamping and Serialization | Slinging Lead...downrange...