Decius wrote:
ubernoir wrote:
I am so shocked by this discussion. It is so unbelievably alien to anything, to any mind set or experience I have ever had as a European....
It seems a very strange idea of freedom. Like living in a bunker, "no one can get me now!", I'd rather walk in the fresh air, walk by the river, have a little faith, enjoy life rather than live in fear, not seeing enemies in every shadow, where every stranger might be a killer or a rapist, but seeing ordinary people with lives and hopes not threats. Where is the peace of mind when you need an AK47 as a comfort blanket?
If its any consolation I don't think the views on this thread accurately represent a cross section of Americans. Barely 20 percent of us own handguns. A lot of the people on MemeStreams are southerners, and southerners are more likely than people who live in other regions to own a gun, but gun owners are not in the majority even here. Certainly only a very small percentage keep their guns as close at hand as many on this thread seem to.
Crime, in some American cities, is oppressive. I certainly think its oppressive in Atlanta. Its a sad think that I feel less safe in my adopted home town that I do in almost any other city that I travel to, but that is the case. I'm always looking over my shoulder when I ride Marta, while I've recently ridden subways in Barcelona, Munich, New York, and Paris and not been the least bit concerned.
However, I don't own a firearm. I don't think carrying a handgun would make me feel safer. I generally prefer to be aware of by surroundings and avoid situations where one is likely to become a statistic. On the other hand, to the degree that ownership of handguns is a deterrent, the fact that other people carry enables me to benefit from their presence.
I don't think banning or allowing handguns is the solution to the problem. I think its one of those political footballs that gets passed around, like life prison sentences for failure to register as a statutory rapist, that plays off of media sensationalism and makes people think that something is being done when nothing is being done. The problem is more complicated than that. Its a product of official corruption (which these political debates are a part, as are those thin blue line stickers on people's cars), a history of segregation, racism, and slavery that created a caste system which still persists, and suburbia's desertion of urban cores (which is fortunately a dying trend but more slowly here than elsewhere). These problems cannot be repaired with quicky legislation, and few of our leaders have the strength to form a long term vision to change the state of our communities. Most effective solutions are expensive. More police on the street (assuming they aren't corrupt) would have a greater deterrent effect than handgun ownership or any change in sentencing policy, but it costs real money, so it is almost never discussed.
and in spite of my reaction, as I have said before, I don't advocate banning handguns in America
I have taken on board the points made by both you and Stephanie and came to the conclusion that it is partly about what is considered normal in the different cultures. It led me to recommend a page on per capita murder rates and led me to thinking that in a sense your country pays a price for its individualism, our price as a society is less individual responsibility. We do have some gun crime but people are perhaps more fatalistic about that since in my country it is a far more remote possibility. We have a far more paternalistic society and in the media there has been much talk recently about knife crime, to the extent of the opposition calling for compulsory prison sentences for those caught carrying knives after a number of murders and I wonder at what point it stops, carrying anything that could be used as a weapon like bats or sticks etc. Your country takes the attitude that short of WMDs anyone can carry any weapon and prosecutes the individual if they use them in an unprovoked attack. We have taken a preventative approach. You put individual liberty first and we put more of an emphasis on social even socialist values. Hence also having a National Health Service etc. So for me it was a culture shock and took a little while to unravel in my own mind the attitudes of intelligent, thoughtful people whom I respect suddenly seeming to say things which came to me out of left field.
You have a higher per capita murder rate which arguably could be connected to gun ownership and we have a government which sometimes treats its citizens like children. The price our (British) society pays is less obvious yet real. As to which is better I think as I discussed here with Stephanie it is good to have different democracies running different models -- meme variety + selection is a positive force and I think over time the "fittest" model will emerge.
