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This page contains all of the posts and discussion on MemeStreams referencing the following web page: Time to rewrite DBMS, says Ingres founder. You can find discussions on MemeStreams as you surf the web, even if you aren't a MemeStreams member, using the Threads Bookmarklet.

Get me rewrite!
by noteworthy at 8:20 am EST, Feb 19, 2008

Database management systems are 20 years out of date and should be completely rewritten to reflect modern use of computers.

Oracle and SQL Server come from an age when online transaction processing dominated and required techniques such as multi-threading and transaction locking.

Persistent storage is unnecessary ...

Abandon SQL; use Ruby.

Note that the paper under review here is actually from last September. It has become "news" again because of the authors' recent criticism of Google (and MapReduce, specifically).


 
RE: Get me rewrite!
by flynn23 at 3:51 pm EST, Feb 20, 2008

noteworthy wrote:

Database management systems are 20 years out of date and should be completely rewritten to reflect modern use of computers.

Oracle and SQL Server come from an age when online transaction processing dominated and required techniques such as multi-threading and transaction locking.

Persistent storage is unnecessary ...

Abandon SQL; use Ruby.

Note that the paper under review here is actually from last September. It has become "news" again because of the authors' recent criticism of Google (and MapReduce, specifically).

I'd actually like to see this same technique applied to everything. Refactor Everything! Refactoring technology and processes yields application of innovation, which is the single highest risk factor for any R&D (that all the R doesn't find a D).

Everything in our lives could be vastly improved upon and this would fit in nicely with the product replacement cycle. Just think of your refrigerator. It basically uses technology that is about 70 years old. The only thing that's really improved in it over all these decades is modest efficiency in the process (better assembly and construction of components, some materials improvements for insulation and overall weight) and some reliability. But if you looked at applying other research to solving the same problem (preserve food efficiently and cheaply), you'd get a whole host of new capabilities and fundamentally change the way that the device works. You could use Stirling engines, more adaptable materials, and inventory management functions that would create a more economically and ecologically friendly device, which would also improve people's productivity and one could argue improve the food production process as well.

There are thousands of these kinds of things all around us that go languishing. I agree that there's some truth in the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy, but if you're looking for a way to improve life, the economy, and champion innovation, there's no better way. Why has the internal combustion engine only really improved power and modestly improved efficiency after 100+ years? Why is it only now that we're looking at radically innovating at that space? Ironically by looking at ideas that were around when the combustion engine was created and were passed over by the market at the time.

Unfortunately, I think most people are content with small incremental improvement over decades instead of constant rigorous refactoring of products and services. Obviously there's margin and efficiency to be gained by figuring out how to make the same thing faster, cheaper, and planned for obsolescence, but I wonder what the financial model would look like if you practiced vigorous disruption on yourself. What if you completely redesigned the product or service from the ground up every 3 years? At that point, the cost economies are probably dialed in and your depreciation curves are at zero (unless it's heavy equipment or plant). Might as well throw it all out and figure out what's the absolute best way to build it TODAY, with what we know NOW and what we have at our fingertips at this MOMENT. I'd be willing to bet that your growth and profitability looks even better. Maybe even breaking the typical S curve that all businesses go through with a product as it matures and proliferates into the market.


Time to rewrite DBMS, says Ingres founder
by unmanaged at 2:07 am EST, Feb 19, 2008

Database management systems (DBMS) are 20 years out of date and should be completely rewritten to reflect modern use of computers.

That's according to a group of academics including DBMS pioneer Mike Stonebraker (http://s2k-ftp.cs.berkeley.edu:8000/nasa_e2e/mike.html), Ingres founder and a Postgres architect taking his second controversial outing so far this year. Stonebraker upset many last month for his criticism (http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2008/01/24/stonebraker_dewitt_mapreduce/) of Google's MapReduce.

In a paper (http://www.vldb.org/conf/2007/papers/industrial/p1150-stonebraker.pdf) entitled The end of an architectural era (It's time for a complete rewrite), the group - drawn from DBMS specialists at MIT and in industry - have said that modern use of computers renders many features of mainstream DBMS obsolete.

They have argued that DBMS designs such as Oracle and SQL Server come from an age when online transaction processing (OLTP) dominated and required techniques such as multi threading and transaction locking. They said that modern transactions - entered via web pages - do not need these expensive processing overheads and DBMS should, therefore, be re-designed without them. Persistent storage such as disks are also seen as unnecessary and could be replaced by geographically dispersed RAM storage.

Stonebraker and his group also advocate abandoning SQL because they see no need for a separate data manipulation language. Data manipulation, they said, can be performed with other tasks using languages such as Ruby. They describe a prototype DBMS called H-Store that embodies these ideas.

While there is certainly a point to be made about the way OLTP works in modern computer environments and the group has some persuasive arguments, it seems unlikely that mainstream DBMS builders will move away from tried-and-tested TP technologies in the near future. Banks and financial institutions in particular will want to hang on to the comfort and security provided by DBMS, which fully implement ACID (http://www.linktionary.com/a/acid.html) properties


 
 
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