Decius wrote:

Stefanie wrote:
I would add this to the liberal myths... 7. Health care is a right.

This is what I'd really like to talk about.

Decius wrote:
I like to think of healthcare like a society of boat people. Each person has their own boat. Randomly, the boats develop holes, and sink. Your boat has just developed such a hole. No one who owns one of the boats near you is willing to pick you up.

You have a choice, you can either force your way onto one of the boats, or you can die.

Is it immoral for you to save yourself by imposing yourself on another boat by force? Is there any reason you wouldn't choose to fight your way on to a boat if drowning is otherwise certain?

You assume that there are no other options in your scenario. What about the possibility of fixing one's own boat? Rather than asking what government (society) is going to do about the boats, why can't the people at least attempt to address their own problems themselves? Have American citizens really become that helpless, incompetent, lazy, and/or irresponsible?

You also suggest that no one is willing to help anyone else. Is that how you would expect Americans to react? If so, you and I are experiencing different Americas, and I would go so far as to call that scenario unrealistically pessimistic. There are those who absolutely can't help themselves and need the help of others. There are also those who can help themselves, but don't. As for the latter category, their boats can sink, as far as I'm concerned. As for the former category, I believe that they can receive the help they need without us plunging the country into socialism.

Decius wrote:
Put in this light, I'd say healthcare is more a right in need of recognition than speech.

Damn! You don't play around! lol

Decius continued...
Ultimately, your choice to go to war to defend your freedom of speech is less clearly forced than your right to access healthcare. You CAN survive in a censorious society. Billions do. If you are dying of cancer and you cannot afford treatment, you'll die.

Why does the phrase "give me convenience, or give me death" come to mind? Yes, I know you're discussing life and health, not consumerism, but I can't imagine wanting to give up control over my own life for more life. I'm sure you've heard this before, but why not make water, food, and shelter rights, while you're at it? Those are all much more important and fundamental than healthcare.

New Hampshire's state motto is "Live free or die." It's a cool slogan to get people fired up whenever the British invade, but does it have any meaning in 2008? Would I rather live for forty years in a capitalistic, democratic republic with no guarantees, or for eighty years under a repressive, totalitarian regime that took care of me from cradle to grave? I'll take the forty and enjoy it, knowing that I'm in control of my own destiny and that I have the freedom to speak and do as I please during my lifetime (which includes posting on Memestreams).

Maybe we should focus less on assigning "right" status to healthcare and more on fixing the problem. We need to get government and employers out of healthcare and health insurance. Each of us should have to shop for our own insurance (which should be used only for major expenses) and pay our own routine medical bills. When the patient/consumer is directly involved, expenses get scrutinized, and prices drop to where they should be. Healthcare costs are artificially high right now because the free market is NOT in control.

Yes, there will always be certain things that we can't afford. Technology will often outpace our ability to pay for some of the latest drugs, machines, and procedures. But that doesn't mean that I should expect my neighbor to pay my bills when something lies beyond my reach.

So, I'll choose the uncertainty of freedom over the certainty of despotism.

RE: FIVE CONSERVATIVE MYTHS