possibly noteworthy wrote:
Dark days ahead. Stock up.

I think it's going to get a lot worse than anyone is willing to admit. We've got too many factors working against the US economy. The gov't administration is turning a blind eye towards the (let's just say it) grift that investment bankers were performing over the last decade, they're doing nothing to protect the economy, and less than nothing to protect the lower-end of that economy (twelve million illegal aliens have to get money for food from somewhere). All they're worrying about is continuing the pillaging of Iraq and trying to drum up support for attempting to pillage Iran as well. Intellectual property wealth (the place where we should be winning, and winning large) is being gobbled up wholesale by law firms by and for suing everyone who does anything by means of bogus or near-bogus patent infringement claims. The entertainment industry (music and movies) is in a psychotic meltdown state because they've pushed things too far in pursuit of higher profits, and that's also starting to affect technological innovation since no one can bring a product to market without having to "buy in" with the companies enforcing the established models that are very clearly failing.

The biggest warning sign is that rich people are now starting to squirm, and they've got a lot more leeway before they start having trouble maintaining a reasonable lifestyle.

I've got a tip, but that's it.
Old computer cards and memory chips are covered in gold. Hoard them and dissolve them up in aqua regia. You'd be supprised at your yeild.

Dagmar wrote:
So, I'm already looking into transferring a significant amount of my assets into gold. Anyone got any suggestions/pointers?

Try not to touch your family and friends... this is where Midas screwed up.

Dagmar wrote:
So, I'm already looking into transferring a significant amount of my assets into gold. Anyone got any suggestions/pointers?

I think this is both too paranoid and not paranoid enough.

Its too paranoid because I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that as an investment vehicle. In fact, stocks may perform well once the contraction in growth is priced in (which hasn't fully happened yet). The prudent thing to do is to work with a professional money manager, but of course you have to have a lot of money in order to get help like that.

Its not paranoid enough because the real reason to hold gold is because you are worried about total economic collapse of the sort experienced in Germany during the great depression. In such a case, a record in a computer indicating that you own gold is worth less than the magnetic disk it's printed on. You have to physically possess the gold. This creates a security and logistics problem...

I met an old German man on a plane a couple months ago who collects gold coins... Not because he is interested in them, but because he sees it as an insurance mechanism in the event of a cataclysm. I told him that I hope things like that don't happen anymore. When I got home I googled US gold coins. You'd be amazed what a single gold coin marked $5 goes for new.

Anyone else got any investment advice for Dagmar?

Decius wrote:

Dagmar wrote:
So, I'm already looking into transferring a significant amount of my assets into gold. Anyone got any suggestions/pointers?

I think this is both too paranoid and not paranoid enough.

Its too paranoid because I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that as an investment vehicle. In fact, stocks may perform well once the contraction in growth is priced in (which hasn't fully happened yet). The prudent thing to do is to work with a professional money manager, but of course you have to have a lot of money in order to get help like that.

Its not paranoid enough because the real reason to hold gold is because you are worried about total economic collapse of the sort experienced in Germany during the great depression. In such a case, a record in a computer indicating that you own gold is worth less than the magnetic disk it's printed on. You have to physically possess the gold. This creates a security and logistics problem...

I met an old German man on a plane a couple months ago who collects gold coins... Not because he is interested in them, but because he sees it as an insurance mechanism in the event of a cataclysm. I told him that I hope things like that don't happen anymore. When I got home I googled US gold coins. You'd be amazed what a single gold coin marked $5 goes for new.

Anyone else got any investment advice for Dagmar?

Actually Pat Buchanan (while not an economist) has stated he has already stated going that route (see McLaughlin Group 1st November show? 2nd? with Mort Zuckerman in the 4 chair).

This sort of train wreck is something previously discussed in threads about the end of the petro-dollar and the conversion to the petro-euro. Right now about the only reason to have dollars is to buy oil. OPEC makes that move and the dollar (and the US) just got shoved off the train.

Decius wrote:

Dagmar wrote:
So, I'm already looking into transferring a significant amount of my assets into gold. Anyone got any suggestions/pointers?

I think this is both too paranoid and not paranoid enough.

Its too paranoid because I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that as an investment vehicle. In fact, stocks may perform well once the contraction in growth is priced in (which hasn't fully happened yet). The prudent thing to do is to work with a professional money manager, but of course you have to have a lot of money in order to get help like that.

Its not paranoid enough because the real reason to hold gold is because you are worried about total economic collapse of the sort experienced in Germany during the great depression. In such a case, a record in a computer indicating that you own gold is worth less than the magnetic disk it's printed on. You have to physically possess the gold. This creates a security and logistics problem...

I met an old German man on a plane a couple months ago who collects gold coins... Not because he is interested in them, but because he sees it as an insurance mechanism in the event of a cataclysm. I told him that I hope things like that don't happen anymore. When I got home I googled US gold coins. You'd be amazed what a single gold coin marked $5 goes for new.

Anyone else got any investment advice for Dagmar?

Dag hasn't responded as to his motivation for moving to gold or even really how he plans to do it (gold based securities or actually stockpiling the stuff in his basement). But nonetheless, I think it's foolish based upon the same logic that I think Decius was hinting at. If you're trying to protect wealth during a recession (which is still not a given), there are a variety of ways to do that. Mostly around shifting to high rated or muni bonds, cash, and smaller emerging markets. If you were just wanting to shift to a currency that was going to perform better than the US dollar in all these scenarios that keep getting ballied about, you're not really talking a big difference in return. Converting to the euro is only going to stave off inflation longer. It doesn't actually produce a better return long term. Unless there's massive collapse, which I am just not seeing happen to the degree that a lot of these articles have pondered.

Even if you thought "the end" was coming, I don't see how gold is what you'd want to horde. If it's really "the end", then natural resources are what will have value. You can't do shit with gold. It's not even a good manufacturing material because it needs too much processing. I'd rather invest in something useful, like electricity production via solar, hydro, wind, or natural gas. Or water, wood, or masonry. Or if you really wanted to get hard core, buy a sustainable farm. People will always need to eat and make things. People don't necessarily need hard currency when the shit hits the fan.

And I already know Dagmar has plenty of guns, so no need to invest in that! =)

flynn23 wrote:
Dag hasn't responded as to his motivation for moving to gold or even really how he plans to do it (gold based securities or actually stockpiling the stuff in his basement). But nonetheless, I think it's foolish based upon the same logic that I think Decius was hinting at. If you're trying to protect wealth during a recession (which is still not a given), there are a variety of ways to do that. Mostly around shifting to high rated or muni bonds, cash, and smaller emerging markets. If you were just wanting to shift to a currency that was going to perform better than the US dollar in all these scenarios that keep getting ballied about, you're not really talking a big difference in return. Converting to the euro is only going to stave off inflation longer. It doesn't actually produce a better return long term. Unless there's massive collapse, which I am just not seeing happen to the degree that a lot of these articles have pondered.

Hi, no. I will not be shifting my money into bonds because those are backed by morons and their idiocy. Idiocy is unfortunately not an appreciating asset. I won't be migrating it to cash because the dollar is losing value like a badly-made new car. We're on par with the freaking CDN now, in case you didn't notice. Had I shifted my little stash into a medium that wasn't subject to revaluation based on the lunatic excesses of some rich bastards (who will likely never really feel the effects of what they have done) a year ago, I'd have made a significant gain in wealth simply from the drop of value in the dollar. As to the rest, I think we saw just how well even "high rated" funds fare after 2001 when everyone's retirement funds dropped in value by 30% or more. They're rated by the same people who put so much money into the "unemployed black man in a string vest" funds, i.e., "structured investment vehicles". So much for trusting in the "experts".

flynn23 wrote:
Even if you thought "the end" was coming, I don't see how gold is what you'd want to horde. If it's really "the end", then natural resources are what will have value. You can't do shit with gold. It's not even a good manufacturing material because it needs too much processing. I'd rather invest in something useful, like electricity production via solar, hydro, wind, or natural gas. Or water, wood, or masonry. Or if you really wanted to get hard core, buy a sustainable farm. People will always need to eat and make things. People don't necessarily need hard currency when the shit hits the fan.

If we're headed the way it appears we're heading, most of these suggestions run the gamut from "unprofitable" to "implausible". I need something relatively immune to the vagaries of economic shifts, which means relying on a scarce resource that doesn't revalue rapidly and has value everywhere. Gold is portable, value-dense ($800 an ounce is pretty dense, almost as dense as Google shares), and although not a huge winner for profit or dividends, is very stable.

Decius wrote:
I met an old German man on a plane a couple months ago who collects gold coins... Not because he is interested in them, but because he sees it as an insurance mechanism in the event of a cataclysm. I told him that I hope things like that don't happen anymore. When I got home I googled US gold coins. You'd be amazed what a single gold coin marked $5 goes for new.

No, actually I wouldn't. They're made of gold, and $5 of gold wouldn't be enough to make a half a dime. We can'y make pennies without the copper being worth 10x the face value of the coin without hollowing them out and filling them with zinc/nickel. Most importantly, you're generally supposed to be able to take gold coins to a jeweler or a pawn shop and be able to sell them for their value in weight.

Decius wrote:

Dagmar wrote:
So, I'm already looking into transferring a significant amount of my assets into gold. Anyone got any suggestions/pointers?

I think this is both too paranoid and not paranoid enough.

Its too paranoid because I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that as an investment vehicle. In fact, stocks may perform well once the contraction in growth is priced in (which hasn't fully happened yet). The prudent thing to do is to work with a professional money manager, but of course you have to have a lot of money in order to get help like that.

Its not paranoid enough because the real reason to hold gold is because you are worried about total economic collapse of the sort experienced in Germany during the great depression. In such a case, a record in a computer indicating that you own gold is worth less than the magnetic disk it's printed on. You have to physically possess the gold. This creates a security and logistics problem...

Gold coins are small, which makes them easily hidable, and considering the value per ounce, a pound of gold (which isn't going to involve a huge shipping cost with FedEx) is worth about twelve thousand dollars currently. This makes it portable. One could easily fit $200,000 in gold coins in a safe-deposit box at a bank, which while costing a bit to maintain, should be secure against everything short of the bank burning to the ground.

Dagmar wrote:
So, I'm already looking into transferring a significant amount of my assets into gold. Anyone got any suggestions/pointers?

Why Gold? Why not Euros?

Jello wrote:

Dagmar wrote:
So, I'm already looking into transferring a significant amount of my assets into gold. Anyone got any suggestions/pointers?

Why Gold? Why not Euros?

How does one open a Euro demoninated bank account in the US?

Decius wrote:

Jello wrote:

Dagmar wrote:
So, I'm already looking into transferring a significant amount of my assets into gold. Anyone got any suggestions/pointers?

Why Gold? Why not Euros?

How does one open a Euro demoninated bank account in the US?

Actually, I don't know. I've never done this. Anyone? You could use an offshore bank, I guess, or the currency markets?

Dagmar wrote:
So, I'm already looking into transferring a significant amount of my assets into gold. Anyone got any suggestions/pointers?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_gold_currency

Shannon wrote:

Dagmar wrote:
So, I'm already looking into transferring a significant amount of my assets into gold. Anyone got any suggestions/pointers?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_gold_currency

Dude those guys get raided more often than a Chattanooga whore house.

Decius wrote:

Shannon wrote:

Dagmar wrote:
So, I'm already looking into transferring a significant amount of my assets into gold. Anyone got any suggestions/pointers?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_gold_currency

Dude those guys get raided more often than a Chattanooga whore house.

No way in hell will I be using one of those sites. I would rather my assets not suddenly disappear as someone's shaky business practices cause the FTC to lock the doors and confiscate the books.

Dagmar wrote:
So, I'm already looking into transferring a significant amount of my assets into gold. Anyone got any suggestions/pointers?

Something to keep in mind.

Private Gold Ownership

People who scoff at the suggestion that the government might restrict private gold ownership should remember that many other countries have restrictions on (or absolute prohibitions against) private gold ownership. They should also remember that, in 1933, Franklin Delano Roosevelt dealt with a monetary and banking crisis by confiscating all privately owned gold; paying for the gold at $20.67 per ounce; immediately devaluing the dollar by 40 percent; and setting the price of gold at $35.00 per ounce. At a single stroke, Roosevelt increased the government's gold assets, stabilized the monetary system and increased wholesale prices by more than 33 percent. However, he also inflicted losses of 40 percent on gold owners and stripped them of the gold that they saved to insure their financial futures.