Create an Account
username: password:
 
  MemeStreams Logo

MemeStreams Discussion

search


This page contains all of the posts and discussion on MemeStreams referencing the following web page: Halloween decoration or hate crime?. You can find discussions on MemeStreams as you surf the web, even if you aren't a MemeStreams member, using the Threads Bookmarklet.

Halloween decoration or hate crime?
by skullaria at 11:29 am EDT, Oct 15, 2007

I don't support the whole idea of hate crime legislation, and this is a good reason why. You can hate a whole class of people without even knowing they exist, I think.

Is this hanging witch a hate crime? Is it a crime against witches, pagans, democrats, Hilary? All of the above?

As a grown woman it doesn't bother me in the least, but as the parent of a pagan child, it horrifies me.

Maybe in a world 60 years ago witches were fictional characters, but today there is a large group of people who claim ownership of that term (many of whom I call friend.)

Hate crime legislation mandates that we class people, but who does this classifying? The government, or the people? And how do we gaurantee that we are all on the same PAGE with just who is in what class?


 
RE: Halloween decoration or hate crime?
by Decius at 12:24 pm EDT, Oct 15, 2007

skullaria wrote:
Maybe in a world 60 years ago witches were fictional characters, but today there is a large group of people who claim ownership of that term (many of whom I call friend.)

I recall when I was in high school we wrote a play which contained the words "that sucks!" We performed the play for students and parents, who mostly seemed to enjoy it. The next morning we were informed that the school had received widespread complaints from parents about references to oral sex in our play. We had absolutely no idea what they were talking about. Someone literally had to spell it out for us. In retrospect I'm still not sure their outrage makes any sense. It seems more likely that the use of the word "sucks" in a disparaging way is more likely a product of the old expression "sucks eggs" than a reference to oral sex.

For a more clear example, consider the fact that in Italy, giving someone the "thumbs up" literally means the same thing that giving someone "the finger" means here. If you go to Italy, and you are not aware of this, and you give someone the "thumbs up," are you guilty of attempting to offend them? Obviously not.

That fact that you've misinterpreted my words and also taken offense at them does not make me guilty of being offensive. If I did not intend to offend you, then what I said was not offensive. The offense occured in your mind and not in my expression. Someone who has never heard of Wicca (which is, frankly, nearly everyone) cannot possibly be thought guilty of a hate crime for hanging a witch. Such offense is just as ridiculous as conservative christians who oppose the celebration of halloween because they argue that it promotes witchcraft! Halloween is a game for children. Its not serious, and it is silly to take it seriously.


  
RE: Halloween decoration or hate crime?
by k at 1:07 pm EDT, Oct 15, 2007

Decius wrote:

I recall when I was in high school we wrote a play which contained the words "that sucks!" We performed the play for students and parents, who mostly seemed to enjoy it. The next morning we were informed that the school had received widespread complaints from parents about references to oral sex in our play. We had absolutely no idea what they were talking about.

This same thing happened to me. I got in trouble for saying "You suck!" (not to a teacher) and was somewhat aghast that anyone a) cared and b) thought that it was worth censoring. If I'd wanted to indicate that that son of a bitch sucked something specific, you can be sure I would have given more detail.

If I did not intend to offend you, then what I said was not offensive.

This isn't really true. Offensive is offensive regardless of intent. Nonetheless, your point remains, which is that the punishment or degree to which you ought to be maligned for such action is dependent on motive.

I think it's kind of tasteless to hang a witch in effigy, precisely because of the history we have in this country of murdering people who were accused of practicing witchcraft, usually as an easy way of removing independent minded, non-conforming people from the community. As you state, I don't at all see it as being hateful towards the Wicca community unless it was intended to be such. It's two separate issues.

There's nothing wrong with practicing Witches making note of this as a way of educating people, certainly. "Hey, you know, we're aware that you weren't really directing this at us, but this is who we are and what we do, and we'd prefer if people didn't keep associating with witches in this way."

That's an adult response.

Crying "Hate Crime! Hate Crime!" is a sure way to make yourself and your community look unreasonable and reactionary, not to mention undermine the notion (the validity of which is certainly open to question) of a hate crime in the first place.


  
RE: Halloween decoration or hate crime?
by Shannon at 4:31 pm EDT, Oct 15, 2007

I can imagine someone quite innocently putting an Indian in a chair wrapped in a blanket as a Thanksgiving decoration. While I don't believe such a decoration should be banned, I do understand how such a thing may be interpreted as ignorant and possibly spiteful. I think it would be the burden of the affected group to inform people of any insensitivities, however I don't think either a hanging witch or an Indian in a blanket should result in legal censorship or the bucket of black paint groups like the anti-defamation league employ.


 
 
Powered By Industrial Memetics