Decius wrote:

Mike the Usurper wrote:
Tom, you missed the boat on this. The report coming out in September, as has been widely reported, is being issued not by the Petreaus and the military people, it's coming from the White House.

Got a reference for that?

Even if that were not the case, let's say the military aspects of the surge are working, the Iraqis are showing no sign of putting together the kind of honest cooperative government needed to stem the civil war.

How could they know our tactics have become more effective before we do?

There may be a problem with B. And so long as C is more than valid, B is not only not an extremist position, it is a perfectly reasonable assumption when dealing with a bunch who has lied and dissembled at every turn.

I understand. However, I'm suggesting that this assumption may not be correct in this case. You arent dealing with the same whitehouse you were dealing with in 2004.

Okay, in reference to the report, let's start here then add Bob Schieffer's comment on the matter (see page 9). I don't think I need to continue on that one.

In reference to the Iraqis going elsewhere, I would say one, they're on the business end of the rifle, we're on the eyepiece end of the lens watching that, so I'd say they may have a better idea, but we'll leave that one up in the air for time to successfully abuse your Pollyanna notion.

In reference to this not being the same White House we were dealing with in 2004, you're right. That White House felt marginally (at best) safe with the American public in what they were doing. This White House isn't looking at how they are being considered anymore. A vast majority does not approve of this president, a plurality thinks W should be impeached, and a sizable minority is considering him a candidate for war crimes. This White House is obviously fooling more at Mark Foley's numbers than their own complicity.

Now, you want to have a discussion on the Vietnam War, that I'm perfectly willing to do, but the pile of crap being shipped by the White House these days? It may make corn grow, but it'll give the rest of us cholera.

RE: Obsidian Wings: Bush's Speech