Decius wrote:
Would you take the same position with regard to, perhaps, illegal drugs. That we can't talk about whether or not our drug policy makes sense until we really crack down, clean all the pot off the street, and throw all the possessors in prison?

We actually do enforce the drug laws. People get arrested and go to jail all the time for drugs. Being an illegal immigrant on the other hand, rather frequently means folks rack up of dozens of DUIs without anything serious happening to them, when if we were going for parity here, they'd be deported on the very first go 'round. The reason we've got soooo many illegals here is that INS hasn't deported more than a handful of people the entire time Bush has been in office. Eight years of non-enforcement will take it's toll.

Are you thinking that we don't deport people or that we aren't, say, building a wall in the south? Because we do and we are. There is always more enforcement you can do. Its always possible to crack down harder on something. My whole point is that the fact that is possible to crack down harder does not, by itself, always mean that you have to do that and you cannot consider any other options, ever. As the option of being more jack booted is always on the table, if this is your philosophy you will never do anything but be more jack booted.

I'm thinking that we don't deport illegals currently. I'm not asking for a "crackdown". I'm asking for simple enforcement that is currently not happening at all. Here in Nashville, (Police Chief) Serpas has gone to great lengths to get special provisions from the state legislature so that the Metro Police can start doing the federal gov'ts job of kicking illegals out of Nashville, because they couldn't before, and the federal gov't wasn't doing it at all. The neighborhood I live in is nice enough, but it's very clear that at least 10% of the populace would be gone if they did a door-to-door, and Antioch would become a freaking ghost town.

Illegal immigration is reaching levels where it is putting unnecessary strain on the public resources of areas which are trying to protect actual citizens.

Now, I'll grant you that this IS a legitimate reason to be concerned about illegal immigrants (as opposed to "illegal is illegal"). However, I see these kinds of assertions thrown around all the time with scant evidence. Do you have data to back the assertion that the contributions made by illegal immigrants to the local tax pool is generally less than the burden they place on local government resources? (Let me add that a restatement of the common assumption that illegals don't contributed to the local tax pool is both incorrect and not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for data.)

Illegal immigrants can't pay federal income taxes. They pay sales tax on things they buy here, and that's all. They don't typically show up in Census data (because regardless, they do not want it on record that they were around if they can help it), which means funds aren't accurately allocated, etc etc. As to the burden the individual Mexican places on the system--that's not how it's done. Everyone in a district is assumed to be using the services of say, the police, whether or not they actually had to call to report a burglary that year.

So to make this simple, show me how someone that can't pay federal taxes is contributing to the tax pool to the same degree that someone who is paying federal income tax is doing. Show me how children with no SSN who can't get into public school without engaging in identity theft are going to be qualified to work at something more impressive than WalMart or landscaping when they become adults. Show me how a public school that's already strapped for cash is going to handle 10% more students attending than the school has been assigned tax money for. These people are being exploited into a veritable slave class, and it's hurting both us and them.

I can't be 100% sure, but it seems like you're advocating the same position as the "pro alien" camp.

I guess I'm either with you or against you.

Well, I'm firmly against a formal amnesty--because it's just going to lead to the next (il)logical step of asking for these people to all be made citizens at once or at least be given permanent permission to stay, entirely bypassing the immigration system without actually fixing or addressing any of the reasons we have limits on the number of immigrants allowed in each year. An amnesty in and of itself is going to have the same effect without fixing any of the actual problems.

(yeah, there needs to be a Preview button for responding... I have no idea if I got the blockquotes right)

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