I'm taking this to a new thread from the Immolate Me Elmo thread.

Decius wrote:
Its not that I don't care, its that I'm skeptical. SS is something that people get real emotional about. So is illegal immigration. This is a press release from an advocacy group and I don't trust it. I don't understand why the US would pay social security benefits to an illegal alien. I'm thinking thats not actually the real story here. A similar agreement exists between the US and Canada, and its fairly reasonable, and I'm quite sure it doesn't apply if you moved between the countries illegally.

The Social Security Administration signs an agreement with a foreign government, does not release the agreement to the US citizenry, is repeatedly uncooperative with FOIA requests to produce the agreement, which results in legal action to have it released. It doesn't seem like the advocacy group is the one not to be trusted to me. Why keep this agreement secret?

I believe we have a right to see this before it is signed into law. This gives us a chance to write our representatives with our opinions. I thought that's what our political system was about. I don't believe we should be bound to laws passed in secrecy.

Far from not trusting someone just because they are with an "advocacy group," I applaud their efforts. I assume you distrust them because they have an agenda. Well, who doesn't? I'll listen to what anyone says, you never know when they might have a point.

Aside from the secrecy aspect of this, I fear what happens if this passes then we have another amnesty. I do not believe we should reward illegal behavior. The precedent has been set that illegal immigrants will be able to collect SS benefits based on past illegal employment thanks to last years immigration bill. All it takes is a change in their status and they are collecting.

Read the agreement, it's what I linked this post to. The benefits of totalization will be retroactive. From Part V, Article 17:

2. In determining the right to benefits under this Agreement, consideration shall be given to periods of coverage or contribution under the applicable laws of either Party and other events material to the determination of benefits which occured before the entry into force of this Agreement.

I guess for me, I can see the writing on the wall. I read stories like these in the context of larger plans like the Council on Foreign Relations' Building A North American Community and the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America. It's especially prudent to pay attention to task forces like the CFR when current members are in high positions of power, like Dick Cheney as Vice President. Right now he is the tie breaking vote in an almost equally divided Senate. Even though his name is not in this report, I have never seen him on record about his opinion about a North American Union. I'm watching his votes carefully.

Am I speculating and worrying about some event in the future that may or may not occur? Sure. Is it unrealistic to expect that the millions of illegals here now will be given amnesty in the near future? Absolutely not. I won't launch into a long list of quotations from well known Senators, but you know it's coming.

Have you noticed something I haven't mentioned? This is not a Republican or Democratic issue. This is about US sovereignty and whether we want to keep it or not. This issue is central to whether we will remain a Constitutional Republic, or become a superstate. It's incrementalism, and this is just one issue out of many on the plate.