I don't happen to think that it would be fair to allow people to cut ahead of the line of an organ donor list, and i think cutting in front of the legal waiting list is equally faulty. It has nothing to do with being of any race, it has everything to do with fucking up the numbers. The legal immigrants we PLAN on accepting have a much better shot at success at opportunities if they don't have to compete with a group of people making them look bad. Also, even though they aren't exactly "competing" to do shit jobs (which will be there with or without immigrants) what they do accomplish is eroding the job market for people who might be able to make a BETTER living at this same work. I know people who clean houses who have to work extra hard for a couple of pennies because some illegal immigrants decided that this work no longer has value. I'd rather we import immigrants who could compete for decent jobs without destroying the value of the work.

If they've already snuck in across a border, rather than sending them right back home at our expense, I'd think it would be fair to give them some time to impress us, or go home at their own tax dollars. Give them six months to find an income of $30,000 or better. Then they should hold that for at least 2 years... If they can manage this, they should be allowed to stay, If not whatever taxes they made during this time will hopefully be enough for a ticket home. This might be fairly difficult for someone from Mexico. However, I think it would be considerably less so than for someone from China. This is not because the Chinese are "better race," but instead because the immigration from China has been largely controlled and as a result there are a greater percentage of Chinese successes. Who will also likely help new immigrants. Even though this might be difficult, it will ensure that despite the rude entry they can hold their own. If they can't do this I don't think we should be interested in helping these folk with their problems when we already have citizens to take care of. The money would be better spent in Social Security than paying for another aging piece of meat.

Even if you give a legal arm, and increase the legal means for entry, I don't know that this will not just also increase the number of illegals. If there's always going to be people who are waiting, there will always be a percentage of those who will choose not to. Fixing the problem of immigration through lightening rules for letting people in I think is somewhat pointless as the problem will still happen in probably the same magnitude... We'd have more legal immigrants, but the number of illegal border crossings might not change significantly. I don't think we can expect to see a change in this until America quits shitting down the throat of the third world. If we're really serious about fixing the immigration problem, we need to give mexico a functioning economy. Anything less than that is a band-aid.

terratogen wrote:
I don't happen to think that it would be fair to allow people to cut ahead of the line of an organ donor list, and i think cutting in front of the legal waiting list is equally faulty.

The trouble is that there is no line. There is no process for people to immigrate unless they are related to an American or they are a professional.

If they've already snuck in across a border, rather than sending them right back home at our expense, I'd think it would be fair to give them some time to impress us, or go home at their own tax dollars. Give them six months to find an income of $30,000 or better.

I might choose a lower number then $30,000, but this is a reasonable idea in general. You want people who are going to actually get jobs. If they aren't working they shouldn't stay.

Even if you give a legal arm, and increase the legal means for entry, I don't know that this will not just also increase the number of illegals.

I don't think so. I tend to think about this the way I think about filesharing. If there is a legal way to purchase the songs, its mostly not worth the trouble of dealing with the p2p networks. The risk of crossing and living here illegally is not worth it if there is a legal way, even if you have to wait in a line. Furthermore, we can actually improve our enforcement if we have rules to enforce that are actually mostly working and not just widely ignored...

However, there is a problem that we have with enforcement... How do you PROVE someone is an illegal? Not everyone has a birth certificate or a social security number.

Decius wrote:

The trouble is that there is no line. There is no process for people to immigrate unless they are related to an American or they are a professional.

Maybe there's just a lack of Mexican professionals... I think it makes sense to have some sort of sponsorship program for non-professionals to educate/jobtrain them (preferably one funded by mostly charity) and include that as an option so there could be a line. Although the other side of this, is it better to deal with the end of forming the line, or just deal with them as they show up anyway?

I don't think so. I tend to think about this the way I think about filesharing. If there is a legal way to purchase the songs, its mostly not worth the trouble of dealing with the p2p networks. The risk of crossing and living here illegally is not worth it if there is a legal way, even if you have to wait in a line. Furthermore, we can actually improve our enforcement if we have rules to enforce that are actually mostly working and not just widely ignored...

That's assuming that they have something to loose... Worst thing that could happen is that they end up where they started. Some might feel it beneficial to live under the radar until they're discovered, and take their chances from there. I think that this is different from filesharing because p2p is more about convenience than it is dissatisfaction with ones life. Without a working economy in Mexico, I don't think fixing things at the gate is going to be ultimately worthwhile.

There is a problem that we have with enforcement... How do you PROVE someone is an illegal? Not everyone has a birth certificate or a social security number.

If they can barely speak english and they're working in a sweatshop for less than minimum wage somewhere inside of the US, and they cannot provide identification than I think this might be an indication. If they are discovered working without a social security number of their own, this may be an indication. I think when they are discovered is when they should be dealt with and tracked. Instead of improving border security, it might be cheaper to investigate who might be of questionable status. We have too many here already that have arbitrarily made a line, why not begin sorting out that mess and make that the gate? Give them the time and chance to impress us and if need be, pay their own way home. Also, create incentive for them to turn themselves in (like a lower wage requirement or only give a certain number of people a chance a year, and send the rest discovered after that home).