Create an Account
username: password:
 
  MemeStreams Logo

MemeStreams Discussion

search


This page contains all of the posts and discussion on MemeStreams referencing the following web page: frontline: al qaeda's new front | PBS. You can find discussions on MemeStreams as you surf the web, even if you aren't a MemeStreams member, using the Threads Bookmarklet.

frontline: al qaeda's new front | PBS
by Decius at 12:54 am EDT, Jul 8, 2005

In the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, the locus of the investigation quickly shifted to Europe and the network of radical Islamic jihadis who are part of "Eurabia," the continent's expanding Muslim communities. Since 9/11 America has been spared what authorities feared and expected: a second wave of attacks. Instead Europe, once a logistical base for Islamic radicals and a safe haven, has itself become the target.

You can download the entire contents online.

This program immediately makes a point that I've made several times here and which I thought was both obvious and broadly understood. The program argues that the American administration doesn't get this. I hope this criticism is foolhardy and they are confusing political retoric with actual reality...

Al'Q is not an organization, it is a scene. It works the way any another scene does. Dead Heads. Punk rock. Hackers. Gangs. Bikers. Scifi Conventioniers. Skaters. Ravers. Left wing anti-globalization groups. Right wing millitias. They all work the same way. They are obviously quite different in terms of interests and morals. But they are the same sort of thing. They are scenes. They exist to connect people who share an interest which is not mainstream. They are not controlled or organized. They are networks, not organizations.

Al'Q cells are not formally organized by central planners. Al'Q is not planned. It is a free market approach. Individual groups are entrepreneurial. Their connection to the network is more idealogical then operational. Often, as is the case in Iraq, an individual group may be operational for a long time before being accepted into the fold. Leaders provide guidance, not management. They point to targets. They explain techniques. They rally troops and provide rhetoric. But they don't know or care about specifics. If you cut them down it would hurt morale and remove skillsets, but it can also strengthen resolve and promote new leadership. It doesn't eliminate capability because the nodes do not depend on any particular leader.

Consider Deadheads. That scene predated that band. It jelled around them because they were the only ones who didn't die young or grow up and get real jobs. But when Jerry finally bit the dust, what occured? Did the scene die? No, it fractured into a multitude of smaller groups that continue to operate today. Phish, or Widespread Panic, or Bonaroo... Thats exactly what will happen to Al'Q when we finally nail BL. In some ways this will make the problem even worse, as we'll replace one problem with 5 or more. More variables. More interconnections. An even less coherent mess. And for us, potentially more dangerous...

An odd thought occurs to me as I contemplate this. How do you kill a scene? How do scenes actually die? Scenes die because they cease to be cool. Because they get coopted by the thing they exist to resist, so that participating in them no longer means what it once did. Because the Gap opens up on the corner of Haight and Ashbury. Because the gangster rappers have million dollar video budgets and all drive luxury cars. If there is anything that can take the cultural iconography of radical islam and shuck it of any possible meaning it is our consumer marketing system. Jihadi Cola, indeed.

This idea seems too trite to be reasonable. Its the sort of thing Gibson would use for irony. Maybe you can offer a better one...


 
RE: frontline: al qaeda's new front | PBS
by flynn23 at 10:47 am EDT, Jul 8, 2005

Decius wrote:

An odd thought occurs to me as I contemplate this. How do you kill a scene? How do scenes actually die? Scenes die because they cease to be cool. Because they get coopted by the thing they exist to resist, so that participating in them no longer means what it once did. Because the Gap opens up on the corner of Haight and Ashbury. Because the gangster rappers have million dollar video budgets and all drive luxury cars. If there is anything that can take the cultural iconography of radical islam and shuck it of any possible meaning it is our consumer marketing system. Jihadi Cola, indeed.

This idea seems too trite to be reasonable. Its the sort of thing Gibson would use for irony. Maybe you can offer a better one...

I don't think it's trite. I think it's right on and it's exactly why it's been giving the WoT planners and administrators and bureacrats fits. They're thinking is still rooted in cold war politics and tactics. Even with better intelligence, their responses and tools are still oriented around a definable enemy and decapitaing the command and control systems. Those don't exist in this case, which is why we've ultimately failed at defeating Al'Q.

You're right: to kill a scene is to make it irrelevant or dull. This is *EXACTLY* the reason why we invaded Iraq. It wasn't WMD's. It wasn't participating in 9/11. It was the ability to influence a mid-eastern state with our culture. It just so happened that Saddam was a really really bad guy, so we could justify our own cultural imperialism. But the reality is that Iraq makes a really good place to do this. They are fairly secular. Saddam never gave a shit about Islam, unless it broadened his power. And the rest of the country is not oriented in a theological way (vs Saudi Arabia, or Iran). Their populace is highly literate (something like 90%!). Women are not second class citizens and could vote and own property even in the Saddam era. In effect, Iraq was already the most 'progressive' mid-eastern state going. So let's just ignite the fires of capitalism and western culture by removing the biggest impediment.

When Bush says he wants to "spread freedom, liberty, and democracy" this is exactly what he means. He's saying that the more we can put The Gap on the corner of Height Ashbury, the more we will subdue the 'scene'. Muslim young males today have nothing to tap into. They're jobless. They're immasculated in a world that is highly confusing compared to their fore-fathers. Al'Q *IS* their punk rock. The quicker you give them a more attractive alternative, the quicker you quelsh the rebellion. The risk is that giving them jobs, money, bling, and endless supplies of American style pussy will somehow get them to stop hating America. That's a big risk in my mind.

Another thing that kills scenes is a massive influx of poseurs. What killed punk rock? It was endless masses trying to break into the scene that didn't understand the point. All that they could grok was the fashion and music sensibility. They didn't understand the gestault. In my mind, this would be a better strategy for the West. Keep Bin Laden alive. He'll end up like Glen Matlock. If you murder him, you'll just turn him into Sid Vicious.


 
Study: Religious Fundamentalists and Brand Loyalty
by Rattle at 5:37 pm EDT, Jul 8, 2005

Decius wrote:
An odd thought occurs to me as I contemplate this. How do you kill a scene? How do scenes actually die? Scenes die because they cease to be cool. Because they get coopted by the thing they exist to resist, so that participating in them no longer means what it once did. Because the Gap opens up on the corner of Haight and Ashbury. Because the gangster rappers have million dollar video budgets and all drive luxury cars. If there is anything that can take the cultural iconography of radical islam and shuck it of any possible meaning it is our consumer marketing system. Jihadi Cola, indeed.

This idea seems too trite to be reasonable. Its the sort of thing Gibson would use for irony. Maybe you can offer a better one...

Here is another thing Gibson could use for irony:

Despite their differences, most major world religions warn that attachment to fleeting material objects is an obstacle to spiritual transcendence. Therefore, religious fundamentalists, who try to strictly follow the tenets of divine scripture, ought to care little for worldly possessions like cars and clothing, says Nancy Wong, assistant professor of marketing at Georgia Tech College of Management.

However, fundamentalists actually tend to form strong personal connections with particular product brands, according to a new study conducted by Wong in partnership with Aric Rindfleisch, associate professor of marketing at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, and James E. Burroughs, assistant professor of commerce at the University of Virginia.

Dr. Nancy Wong is cute.

Study: Religious Fundamentalists and Brand Loyalty


 
 
Powered By Industrial Memetics