Acidus wrote:

Vile wrote:

Acidus, you are idealistic and consumed by conspiracy theories. Has it ever occurred to you that an international action can have multiple benefits? Iraq is better off without Hussein. They are better off as a democracy and cheaper gasoline sounds like a great tradeoff. After all, we spent a few hundred billion dollars on the war effort. We could have approached this peaceably with places such as the EU or Australia, but when a hostile rogue nation cannot come to the table in a civilized manner, they do not deserve to exist on this planet in that form. They need a new mouthpiece, as it were. When we are done, the world will be a better place. These changes are inevitable. You need to see things from more than one limited perspective.

Vile, this is the best arguement I have ever seen you make! In fact, I agree with most of your points. It is extremely difficult to have a successful UN-like body when not everyone plays by the rules. Having people like Saddam certain makes things much hard to deal with, and sometimes it makes sense to take your marbles and go home. I don't deny Iraq/the World is better without Saddam in power. I believe it will be very difficult to meet our energy demands. I can understand (but not condone) America invading to protect vital national intersts

What pisses me off is the continued denials of the Bush administration about the reasons for war. Don't piss on my face and tell me its raining. Don't feed me bullshit about UN violations or "bringing democracy" when we ignore Israel and Saudi Arabia. After 1700+ dead Americans and $200+ billion, the president needs to come clean.

If you know the real reasons for the US invasion of Iraq, then good for you. I'm inclined to agree with you, in fact. However, let's examine the US right now. Then let's examine Israel and Saudi Arabia. If President Bush were to publicly announce that this was an oil war, then this extremist, polarized version of modern America would throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak. We would have faced an era of inaction. Now, I feel that the primary motivation for the Iraq war was to strengthen the region's bond to the rest of the world. If we stabilized Iraq, North Korea and Iran, then we have eliminated all nations that pose a direct threat to world peace in the long term. At the point at which the EU, The USA, the Eastern Middle East, Eastern Asia and Australia can stand together in civility, then they can all put the screws to Israel, Darfur, the former Burma, Saudi Arabia, et. al. to clean up their acts or face a cleaning at the consensus of the rest of the world. With a proven track record of dealing with dangerous, despotic nations with the gloves off, these countries would do well to listen to the world. At the point this all plays out, we could conceivably move towards a world without international war (Civil war is trickier business). With North America, Europe, Asia, and Australia allied in civility, it would offer the burgeoning continents of South America and Africa many benefits as they enter the new millenium. They could receive greater aid and guidance as they modernize their nations. I look forward towards seeing our world on the road to unification in this lifetime. Believe it or not, I can see even these dumbass religions getting along, if they all feel represented (I daresay appreciated) in the world. Let's face it, Acidus, most Americans are too ignorant, stupid or bigoted to support this plan. They needed to be lied to. If we are intelligent enough to see the gameplan behind the facade, then we'd best keep it to ourselves and watch it play out. It's very interesting and exciting. Many of the president's own supporters hate the idea of a world where they may be brothers in freedom with "brown people." Those same people would love the idea that we went to war for oil. For others this would be vice versa. I think that the current assholes in control of the US are doing a credible job of bullshitting us just enough to continue their work, which may have a value that neither liberals nor conservatives would appreciate.

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