noteworthy wrote:
] To the extent you think about America's global competitiveness
] in the decades ahead, you fixate on our ability to fabricate
] the best techno-gizmos, music, and movies.

I'm not quite sure how to respond to your post. You seem to be attacking a general stereotype of the entire tech community, but in that case, who exactly are you expecting to respond?

In any case, we have such a relatively small community here. When I check the "who's posting" calendar at User Weblogs, I see there are several posts per day, but that's not exactly slashdot traffic. :)

I've also posted several things that I was surprised that no one memed or replied to. But I don't feel that I was ignored. I'm pretty sure that most of what I post does get read by most of the more frequent meme-ers here. We just have different threshholds of what we find interesting or reply to. For example, I rarely follow the "two-headed frog" or "kitten found abandoned in tree" threads.

Health posts, I've been following. I saw your other obesity posts, and agree with them. Yes, obesity is a crisis in our country. The numbers I've been seeing in the health magazines are actually higher than what you found -- More like 75% of our country is overweight or out of shape, not 60%. It's something that I think about when I go to the gym, and look around at the other folks on the treadmills and exercise bikes -- in one way of looking at it, we're like the "133t" of the country, the small percentage who are trying hard to live healthy.

I went for my annual checkup a couple weeks ago. The doctor actually looked bemused as he went over my numbers and lifestyle checklists: "You don't smoke, you drink in moderation, you're eating the right proportions of protein, fat, and carbohydrates, you're exercising regularly, your cholesterol, LDL and HDL are all within normal ranges... You're living a healthy lifestyle, good job!" I got the feeling that he doesn't get to say that often, and that it was unusual for him to get through a patient visit without having to repeat a mantra of, "You need to stop smoking / cut back on fatty foods / exercise more". I feel like most doctors have given up on actually being listened to in this regard: That they feel like they're being treated like the kid who's crying wolf, and no one's taking them seriously.

So in any case, yes, I agree with you. But no, I don't think the new reports are going to change behaviors. But yes, obesity rapidly *is* becoming the #1 *preventable* cause of death in our country.

As for where to place the blame, I agree that everyone has a personal responsibility to take care of their own lifestyle, but I also think that fast food chains and heavy marketing share a lot of the blame. I mean, if McDonald's *really* wanted to promote a healthier lifestyle, they'd put those promotional "instant win" stickers on the salads and fruit plates, not just on the fries and burgers, right?

Elonka wrote:
] In any case, we have such a relatively small community here.
] When I check the "who's posting" calendar at User Weblogs, I
] see there are several posts per day, but that's not exactly
] slashdot traffic. :)

Well, I know this is an aside but one shouldn't assume the number of readers is related to the number of posters. There are many more lurkers here. Your MemeStream in particular is enormously popular. Over 5000 views so far this month. Mine only had 300 or so, and many of those are probably me.

Decius wrote:
] Elonka wrote:
] ] In any case, we have such a relatively small community here.
] ] When I check the "who's posting" calendar at User Weblogs, I
] ] see there are several posts per day, but that's not exactly
] ] slashdot traffic. :)
]
] Well, I know this is an aside but one shouldn't assume the
] number of readers is related to the number of posters. There
] are many more lurkers here. Your MemeStream in particular is
] enormously popular. Over 5000 views so far this month. Mine
] only had 300 or so, and many of those are probably me.

Oh absolutely. :) Within my own communities, I find that it's usually a 10-1 ratio (on average) of regular readers to regular posters.

5000 though, eh? I'd love to see some sourcing data on that. Are they linking in from google, or coming in straight? If it's anything like my website(s), most are probably coming in from searching on Kryptos and "Da Vinci Code" stuff.

Elonka wrote:
] Health posts, I've been following. I saw your other obesity
] posts, and agree with them. Yes, obesity is a crisis in our
] country. The numbers I've been seeing in the health magazines
] are actually higher than what you found -- More like 75% of
] our country is overweight or out of shape, not 60%.

I would readily believe a statement like "75% of Americans don't get enough exercise." I got the 60% obesity figure from supersizeme.com, so that figure may already be two years old. And if you've looked at the Census data, you know what a dramatic difference two years can make on the nation's waistline.

] So in any case, yes, I agree with you. But no, I don't think
] the new reports are going to change behaviors.
]
] As for where to place the blame, I agree that everyone has a
] personal responsibility to take care of their own lifestyle,
] but I also think that fast food chains and heavy marketing
] share a lot of the blame.

Personal responsibility is a key component, but fighting obesity is not a purely selfish consideration. There is also an altruistic component that draws on an individual's sense of civic duty. Further, we share a social responsibility to protect each other, not just on a person-to-person basis, but on a collective level, as well.

When it comes to obesity in the US today, I don't expect many people to readily accept my arguments about civic duty and social responsibility. Obesity is already a true crisis in the United States, but its detrimental effect on GDP is not yet widely acknowledged by the general public. Even for smoking, no one really talked about this. But with smoking, the US was not distinguished in this regard; it was a world-wide problem. Today, obesity is a singularly American problem in a way that smoking never was. Because of this great disparity among nations, we may be at a significant competitive disadvantage, but it is one whose effects may be difficult to measure because we're dealing with a long term (life long) investment.

This is why I drew comparisons to AIDS in Africa. Although the communicability of AIDS gives it epidemic properties that obesity does not exhibit, I observe that within two decades the incidence of drug-resistant adult-onset diabetes in a first-world country (the US) may exceed the incidence of AIDS in even the worst-afflicted third-world countries. I expect some people may be offended by that comparison; these people miss my point. I am not saying they are equal. I am simply trying to demonstrate that pervasive chronic illness has a major depressive effect on the national economy and on the national well-being in societal terms. I observe as well that because first-world countries have so much more at stake -- meaning so much more to lose -- they have even more reason to be vigilant against such dangers. And yet we are not.

If you think healthcare in the US today is out of control, just you wait. When 50% of Americans suffer from diabetes, high blood pressure, and high cholesterol, and 25% have had a heart bypass operation by age 40, then maybe I'll be able to get your attention.

I Don't think it's blind. I think America is fully aware that it's eating its own shit. Ever since the lobby war on cigarettes is basically won, they regrouped as the fat police. There aren't committees formed to tell health nuts to drop the tofu and experience life. People aren't forcing ice cream down their throats. So I don't think there should be one to rip the food out of the mouth of some fat asshole who's eating himself to death. The 25 years get cut right from the social security budget. Let smokers smoke, drunks drink, and drug addicts do their drugs. Not everyone wants to live forever. That's the religious, and their lot has generally the most damaging and most intrusive lifestyle for others. Try to tell them that they live wrong.

terratogen wrote:
] The 25 years get cut right from the social security budget.
] Let smokers smoke, drunks drink, and drug addicts do their drugs.

It's funny because it's true. Right on.

Although I will point out that the government and the public also invests a lot of time, money, and resources in people when they're young, and society's return on that investment is sacrificed when we let those people die early.

It's problematic to attempt generalizations. I think both ideas make sense, but in different circumstances. It's not just single mothers on welfare who are obese. When 25% of the US population is obese, and 60% of the population is overweight, we're talking about a significant number of highly productive individuals who are in large part collectively responsible for our national well-being.

Your taxes are higher, and America is less competitive globally, because otherwise smart and productive people die early. Whether they die because of smoking, heart disease, obesity, or random gang violence is immaterial for the purposes of this argument, although I am focusing here specifically on obesity because it is a huge and growing problem, well on the way to becoming the leading cause of preventable death in the US.

] Not everyone wants to live forever. That's the religious ...

Actually the fundamentalists often look forward to mortal death with great anticipation. Did you see the Rapture story on the Daily Show recently? Have you seen those "The Rising" books at the book store and at the top of the best seller lists?

They can't wait! They're so excited they daydream about it, and those of them with deficient imaginations resort to reading books in order to conjure up the desired imagery.

] Try to tell them that they live wrong.

It's this line of investigation that is wrongheaded ... it's not a moral question. Nothing I wrote was intended to give that impression. I was making an economic argument. It's a question of our very viability as a nation.