Decius wrote:
] adam wrote:
] ] Decius wrote:
] ] ] ] Defying fears of suicide bombings, mortar attacks, and
] ] ] ] insurgent threats to kill every voter, Iraqis Sunday
] ] ] ] lined up in greater numbers than expected to cast
] ballots
] ] ] ] in historic elections.
] ] ]
] ] ] It sounds like the elections went well.
] ]
] ] but do the ends justify the means
]
] If our goal was to elminite WMD then obviously the ends don't
] justify the means because there was no WMD to eliminate. If
] our goal was to project power in the region (and it was) it
] remains to be seen. There have been some effects that have
] been to our advantage, but this has not gone dramatically well
] by any stretch of the imagination.
]
] Its not democracy we want. Its liberal democracy. If Iraq
] becomes a conservative islamic state like Iran, then no, the
] ends were not worth the means to us in my opinion, even given
] the pressure that this has allowed us to place on other
] governments in the region. If Iraq becomes like, say, Mylasia,
] then maybe they were. The result will probably be something in
] the middle.
]
] What would we be doing now had we not gone into Iraq? We'd be
] having more difficultly pressuring various states, including
] Pakistan, to cut down Al'Q, but Al'Q would have a harder time
] recruiting and would have fewer targets to attack. People
] would be more focused on Afghanistan and frustrated that its
] taking so long. Saddam would still be funding Palestinian
] terror networks and torturing athletes.
]
] Its really, really hard to say.
]
] I recal feeling before this war started that I didn't have
] great arguements against doing it, but I also didn't have
] great arguements for it, and as its a war, you should always
] say no unless you are sure you are right. I still feel that
] way. Unless there is some clear sign that this has improved
] the situation significantly over what we would have otherwised
] faced its hard to beleive in it. For many people this election
] is that sign. Its not for me. It will be what the government
] this election elects does with its power over time that leads
] me to a conclusion. Ask me in 2010.

Decius is thoughtful as ever and I largely agree we have to judge the situation 2010 however my main problem is that the USA is acting
as an imperial power, a largely unilateral world policeman. If the
aim of the war was to project power in the region then that strikes
me as a war of aggression and we spent much of the 20th Century fighting wars to uphold the principle that wars of aggression were immoral. I believe in democracy and the rule of law but I do not believe that the West is morally justified in spreading democracy through the barrel of a gun in the same way that communists spread the dictatorship of the proletariate (although to be fair spreading your idealogy then asking the people makes a difference). Am I indulging in moral nicities and not real politic.
I see my own country's history of colonialism and imperialism. I cannot help but wince at the thought of the USA's corporate colonialism, the debts Iraq is racking up in the West. Is Iran next? Once you start invading countries with appalling human rights
records then where does it stop. Next stop Beijing.

RE: Iraqis crowd the polls | csmonitor.com