Decius wrote:
] flynn23 wrote:
] ] things like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, Thanksgiving
] holiday,
] ] cowboys, and on and on and on.
]
] Well, the Thanksgiving holiday is at least as old as the
] republic, but you are right about the rest...

Not necessarily. It was in the very late 1800's that it was made a national holiday, having been a sporadic regional occurance before that. And typically didn't get celebrated independantly of generic "harvest" celebrations, which are as old as humanity itself. Most of what we think of as the "story" of Thanksgiving is wrong, and horribly sanitized for the teaching of young elementary schoolers. A great viewpoint:

http://www.2020tech.com/thanks/temp.html

] ] I see your point, but your foundation is incorrect. While
] many
] ] whites did practice some form of monotheism, that was not
] ] exclusive. You could even argue whether it was a majority or
]
] ] not. Some of the earliest pilgrims here were Druidic or
] other
] ] types of Pagans. That was the whole reason why they came
] here
] ] - to get away from the Church.
]
] Citation?

I can't pull up a link right now, but I've read several books (remember those?) that are usually accounts of early racial migrations (Polish, German, Irish, etc) into the region, and of course my own upbringing in Michigan and its history. Whites were here in America for years before the Pilgrims landed, as fur traders, trappers, and explorers. Most of those people were outcasts of societies from whereever they hailed from. Those that settled here did so because they had a bond with the Natives, particularly around Paganism. Afterall, the word Pagan actually means "country dweller". And most Pagans would be very in tune with Native American religions, which sought balance with the environment.

Speaking of just the Polish migration into the US, they were some of the earliest engineers, skilled labor, and merchants brought with the Pilgrims to help them build the colonies. Many of them were here because of persecution from the Church in native Poland. A good book on that subject is "My Name Is Million", which details a lot of this out.

Another fact to consider is that Christianity itself has morphed and distorted due to the numerous sects with which it 'converted'. So Druidic teachings, Norse teachings, Germanic teachings... all have found their way into modern Christianity by way of crusades and compromises. All of the major Christian holidays are rooted in Pagan celebrations and teachings (Easter, Christmans, etc). Those that were on the fringes of these are likely to have sought a place where they could practice their less fundamentalist ways without persecution of greater society in Europe.

] ] This might be the case, and the Bush administration quacks
] ] like a duck, smells like a duck, and walks like a duck. So
] it
] ] may be that America is heading for a heavily influenced
] ] Judeo-Christian administration. However, this is
] unsustainable
] ] in today's global context and I think it will be undone and
] ] quite quickly. But that's a topic for another thread.
]
] Hrm. My cynical opinion is that you can be very abrasive for a
] very long time as long as you have all the money. The bad
] decisions you'll make as a fundamentalist state (such as
] training a generation of children to reject the scientific
] method) can take quite some time to come home to roost.

true, but most of the conservatives wealth is really locked up in the wealth of corporations, not individuals. I haven't seen any demographics around this, but I would suspect that there's still a 50/50 split amongst wealthy Americans. The only issue that really would move them is taxes, and the Republicans are going to reap what they've sown on this issue alone in the next few years. Their course is not only unsustainable, but contrary to their platform of tax breaks for the wealthy. When the wealthy see that their tax breaks have come at a very stiff price in other areas, things will change swiftly.

Damage to the intellectualism of the society is probably not an exclusive function of what party is in power. We are dumbing ourselves down exponentially through a variety of factors, least of which is our constant ADD on the educational system here in America. It's pathetically broken and it always gets de-prioritized under things like War On Terror, Economics, and even Healthcare. Government is almost worse than Business when it comes to immediate gratification.

] ] I continue to be impressed with
] ] how America has 'sucked it up' and gotten on with itself in
] ] light of the election.
]
] I think people are tired. They've been fighting for some time.
] Now they want to relax and get on with their lives. There is
] nothing they can do about it for at least 2 years.

There's nothing to fight over. People were depressed for about 3 days after the election, and then realized "I still have a job", "I've still got to put food in my belly", "my life hasn't changed". With that realization, it became apparent to many that neither one of those idiots would've made a material difference in our lives the next day, or the next month. So with our short sightedness, comes our undoing.

RE: Scalia opposed to separation of church and state