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This page contains all of the posts and discussion on MemeStreams referencing the following web page: Pandering To Hypocrisy Pandering To Hypocrisy Pandering to Hypocrisy. You can find discussions on MemeStreams as you surf the web, even if you aren't a MemeStreams member, using the Threads Bookmarklet.

Pandering To Hypocrisy Pandering To Hypocrisy Pandering to Hypocrisy
by k at 11:38 pm EST, Nov 22, 2004

] So, by all means let's pander till we can't stand up.
] We'll all pretend to be duly chastised by our libertine
] ways and pay obeisance to those good heartland values
] that neither they nor we actually live by. Whatever. But,
] don't expect me to actually believe that George W. Bush's
] majority represents those things any more than we
] depraved liberals do. Politicians and preachers lie.
] Neilson ratings and product sales don't.

[ Hear hear, digby. -k]


 
RE: Pandering To HypocrisyPandering To HypocrisyPandering to Hypocrisy
by Decius at 2:10 am EST, Nov 23, 2004

k wrote:
] ] So, by all means let's pander till we can't stand up.
] ] We'll all pretend to be duly chastised by our libertine
] ] ways and pay obeisance to those good heartland values
] ] that neither they nor we actually live by. Whatever. But,
] ] don't expect me to actually believe that George W. Bush's
] ] majority represents those things any more than we
] ] depraved liberals do. Politicians and preachers lie.
] ] Neilson ratings and product sales don't.

Oh, but yes they do! That NYT story was complete baloney, as I mentioned in another thread. I'll repost my complete comments here:

-=-=-=-

noteworthy wrote:
] Bush bastions Atlanta and Salt Lake City, watching
] a sex-drenched television drama?
]
] In the greater Atlanta market, reaching more than two million
] households, "Desperate Housewives" is the top-rated show.
] Nearly 58 percent of the voters in those counties voted for
] President Bush.

How about statistical bullshit?

Dekalb: 73% Kerry
Fulton: 60% Kerry

(Source CNN)

Thats the ALT and most of it's significant suburbs. I mean, we all know that Cobb is conservative. Whatever. Even in some of the exurbs people connected with the City are more likely to be finance voters rather then moral values types. The Atlanta "Market's" interest in "Desparate House Wives" may reflect its interest in Kerry, but you're not going to see that if the way you do this is to average out an area like "the whole state of Utah and parts of Nevada, Idaho and Wyoming" and call it "Salt Lake City."

Calling Atlanta a "Bush Bastion" is like calling Israel "Islamic" because you're including Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon in with what you call "Israel."

Stupid.

-=-=-=-

Now, if you are the kind of person who gets offended, stop reading this now.

I mean it. Stop.

OK, you asked for it.

The base of the right wing consists of people who are:
Rednecks who like to watch people die on TV so they can feel good about themselves as "ass kicking Americans," greedy professionals who want lower taxes and don't give a fuck about the world, crazy fundamentalists who want to shove their religion down everyone's throats, and fascists.

Its ok, the base of the left wing consists of people who are:
Punks who are still pissed of at their Dad and don't know the difference between questioning authority and always disagreeing with authority, idiots who are not able to understand that the public's money is their money too, crazy freaks who want to destroy anything associated with traditional culture in America, and socialists.

I was wrong, and many commentators where wrong, to give credit for this election to the base of the right wing. The base of the right wing didn't win this election. Those people were going to vote for Bush anyway. The center chose Bush.

The center are people who don't really care about conservative religious values but don't mind crosses on public lands. The center are people who want lower taxes but not at the expense of killing people. The center are people who just aren't into all this fanatical political bullshit and mostly want to hire a President who is charismatic, strong, honest, and responsible. They chose Bush. They chose him because seems more Presidential then Kerry. He is.

The left didn't vote for Kerry. They voted against Bush. They need to actually produce a candidate they want to vote for. They'll win if they can do that. They need to forget the issues and focus on the man.


  
RE: Pandering To HypocrisyPandering To HypocrisyPandering to Hypocrisy
by k at 10:41 am EST, Nov 23, 2004

Decius wrote:
] The left didn't vote for Kerry. They voted against Bush. They
] need to actually produce a candidate they want to vote for.

[ Without question. ...]

] They need to forget the issues and focus on the man.

[... in this, however, i disagree. The left certainly needs to stop discussing the issues in terms of policies and logical analysis, but to put forth a candidate who is all style and no substance will be every bit as ineffectual as the inverse situation we find ourselves in now.

What the left needs is a coherent vision. A framework in which to couch it's rhetoric so that people see a group with a solid, consistent message. And I don't mean an agenda, or a plan, or a series of talking points. There's been much bandying about for the past weeks about the left needing to be more about religion or less about gays or that they need to move to the center in some abstract way. I think that's all bullshit. The democratic platform has a great deal to offer most people in this country. But it's mired in the outmoded viewpoint that reasoning with people and presenting policy papers will sway people. It doesn't. Instead, the focus should be on anchoring that platform with a core philosophy and training ourselves to discuss matters in those terms.

I like Lakoff, but i don't think he has the monopoly on good ideas in this regard... i'm not at all sure what the best option is, but i think that's where the discussion needs to move.

Once the vision is established, finding a good candidate is a little easier, because they will have something to articulate that is already familiar to people and which presents the values of the left instead of a series of policy positions. -k]


 
 
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