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This page contains all of the posts and discussion on MemeStreams referencing the following web page: Hong Kong People! - NYTimes.com. You can find discussions on MemeStreams as you surf the web, even if you aren't a MemeStreams member, using the Threads Bookmarklet.

Hong Kong People! - NYTimes.com
by Decius at 1:35 pm EDT, Sep 29, 2014

This past Sunday — was the moment when the “one country, two systems” formula Hong Kong was promised on its return to Chinese sovereignty in 1997 was finally laid bare as unworkable.

This oped is interesting for some of the bright lines it seems to draw, although it seems to contradict itself in calling for foreign states to express solidarity with the protestors while also attacking China's assertion that foreign states are trying to manipulate the process behind the scenes. If the US spoke in favor of the democracy movement would China then use these statements against the protestors?

The problem with democracy is that its necessary but not sufficient for a free society. Democracy in some places in the middle east means totalitarian rule by religious extremists. What we need is liberal democracy - a democracy that is coupled with a respect for the individual rights of individual people.

Why isn't the US an outspoken advocate of that - everywhere?

Hong Kong is a country that respects individual rights, and with that ingredient, democracy can succeed there in a meaningful way.


 
RE: Hong Kong People! - NYTimes.com
by noteworthy at 8:40 pm EDT, Sep 29, 2014

Decius:

The problem with democracy is that it's necessary but not sufficient for a free society.

Have you read (about) the new Fukuyama? Here's David Runciman on the book:

Are our current political arrangements part of the solution, or part of the problem?

[Fukuyama insists] that democratic institutions are only ever one component of political stability. In the wrong circumstances they can be a destabilising force as well. His core argument is that three building blocks are required for a well-ordered society: you need a strong state, the rule of law and democratic accountability. And you need them all together.

What matters most of all is getting the sequence right. Democracy doesn’t come first. A strong state does. States that democratise before they acquire the capacity to rule effectively will invariably fail.

This is an explanation of how we have got to where we are but it is not a recipe for making the world a better place. Telling people who want democracy to hold off in order to strengthen their state won’t wash, because having to live under a strong state in the absence of democracy is often a miserable experience: that’s why the Arab spring erupted in the first place. It is the basic tension in Fukuyama’s oeuvre: if we live in an age where democracy is the best idea but discover that democracy will only work if we defer it, then politics is going to be a horribly messy business.

The other problem is that getting the right sequence often takes a shock to the system.


 
 
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