Elonka wrote:
] Decius wrote:
] ] The number one issue was "moral values" (and I'm going
] ] to continue to put that in quotes because I think its an
] ] oxymoron), but the number two issue was Terrorism. Where
] Kerry
] ] failed was by not focusing on Terrorism.
]
] No, from my read of things, the top issues were Terrorism and
] the War in Iraq. Every place I heard people debating things,
] that's what came up. Not moral values.

You must know what I'm referring to:

The Edison/Mitofsky exit polls used by the major television networks showed "moral values" to be the top priority in how people cast their ballots.

Twenty-two percent said moral values trumped the two issues most experts thought would sway voters, the economy and terrorism. These came in second and third at 20 percent and 19 percent respectively.

Search Google News for "Moral Values"

] But I draw the line at marriage. That's a hetero institution,
] and I'm not giving them that too. If gays don't like that,
] well tough." Or in other words, I don't see the gay marriage
] issue as the conservative right being aggressive against gays
] -- I see the *gay* culture having been increasingly aggressive
] and, yes, activist about getting acceptance in mainstream
] culture, and at some point *of course* mainstream was going to
] push back and say, "Okay, this far and no further." It
] doesn't mean they hate gays.

Yes, it does, and I'm sure that I can convince you of that. I'm also sure that people who advocated the "separate but equal" policies in the 50's presented the same "we ain't talkn' bout lynchn' nobody" rationale that you just laid out.

Yeah, gays have gotten more aggressive about getting acceptance in mainstream culture, as would you or I were we in the same position. I can't fault them for offending people who maybe ought to be offended.

The key question for you is why do you care, and once you find the answer to that you'll understand.

Why? If a church in another city decides to recognize gay marriages, with support of it's congregation, what business is it of yours? What impact does it have on you? Why do you care?

Why? If two gay people decide to get married in that church what business is it of yours? What impact does it have on you? Why do you care?

Why do you feel the need to say "this far and no further" to something that has nothing to do with you?

] Are conservatives and evangelical
] Christians automatically evil, in your world view? Isn't it
] remotely possible that someone can be devoutly religious,
] *and* also be smart, educated, informed, caring, and
] respectful of other ways of life?

We're not talking about "Evangelicals" abstractly. We're talking a national election. We're talking about evangelicals in politics. We're talking about evangelical christians who are attempting to use the government to impose their religion on this country. Who believe in a government of God as opposed to a government of Men. Who are perilously close to driving a knife through the system of checks and balances that holds this system of Government together, so that they can pursue their unconstitutional agenda without Supreme Court review.

Yes I think those people are evil and I think their agenda is evil. I think the Taliban is what happens when you draw these evil ideas out to their natural conclusion. And I think these people will anger me so long as I live here.

They've a right to their beliefs, but they also have a responsibility not to impose it on others by political force. Thats what Religious Freedom is all about.

RE: The Values-Vote Myth