Decius wrote:
] Can I please have one story about left wing voter suppression?

I recall hearing the Democrats were suing to keep Nader off the ballots in a few places..

k wrote:

] [ As rattle says, you could claim that suing to keep nader off
] the ballots counts, though the counter argument is that Nader
] didn't follow the rules and had a whole ton of invalid names
] on his petitions.

I agree with Rattle. Nader is a football for all sides. Republicans are openly supporting him because they want him to take votes from the left. They've pumped him up but they aren't actually going to vote for him. You'd think NRO would be above that kind of transparent behavior. And Nader is down for it because he wants a pulpit. I disagree with the lawsuits against putting him on the ballot. If he can't get 1000 signatures then why be concerned with the number of votes he'll get? If the number of votes he'll get is a threat, then he ought to be on the ballot!

] There was some story about a lefty organization, ACORN i
] think, which was getting in trouble, but again, not for
] denying voters. They were registering dead people, or made up
] names, or something -- clearly a serious violation, in the
] sense of ballot stuffing, but also not disenfranchisement,
] precicely.

Yes, it is. Cancelling my vote out by having a dead person vote against me is just as disenfranchising as not letting me vote at all.

Decius wrote:
] I agree with Rattle. Nader is a football for all sides.

[ And he likes it that way. Otherwise no one would think about him anymore. I tend to agree that the petition rule is bullshit, but since it exists, the fact that he would cheat to fill it up is a pretty major point against him. It's not the fact that he did or didn't fill up the petitions. It's that he cheated to do so. ...]

] Yes, it is. Cancelling my vote out by having a dead person
] vote against me is just as disenfranchising as not letting me
] vote at all.

[ Fair enough.

Of course, the electoral college effectively cancels out your vote too, since you decided to live in a place which is heavily oriented to one side. I've been depressed about the low voter turnout numbers in the past (in the vicinity of 50%) but i've come to realize that a huge portion of that number isn't based purely on laziness. I still think everyone should vote, but i completely understand how a democrat in NY or CA could say, "eh, fuck it." Again, i don't encourage that, but i do understand it.

Anyway, we're off topic now. So what's the tally, 1 month old issue on the left and ...? -k]

k wrote:
] Of course, the electoral college effectively cancels out your
] vote too, since you decided to live in a place which is
] heavily oriented to one side. I've been depressed about the
] low voter turnout numbers in the past (in the vicinity of 50%)
] but i've come to realize that a huge portion of that number
] isn't based purely on laziness. I still think everyone should
] vote, but i completely understand how a democrat in NY or CA
] could say, "eh, fuck it." Again, i don't encourage that, but
] i do understand it.

I think its critically stupid to avoid voting because of the electoral college. I will vote, and my vote will be counted! Let them select a president who lost the popular vote! They will know who is right and who is wrong, and you can rest assured that Bush is aware of the degree of his mandate even in this close situation in 2000. A president who lost the popular vote will be very weak indeed.

Decius wrote:
] I think its critically stupid to avoid voting because of the
] electoral college. I will vote, and my vote will be counted!
] Let them select a president who lost the popular vote! They
] will know who is right and who is wrong, and you can rest
] assured that Bush is aware of the degree of his mandate even
] in this close situation in 2000. A president who lost the
] popular vote will be very weak indeed.

[ Hear hear. Er, wait, didn't that happen last time? Bush sucks, but I wouldn't call him weak. I'll vote too. My vote will more than likely be counted. But it probably won't matter. Again, if this were a forum where i might influence people not to vote, i wouldn't even say these things. But since it's just us, I have no problem being honest. I think everyone should get off their ass and vote. I just wish we had a system which better accounted for them. -k]