w1ld wrote:
] mp3 of Kerry support both sides of many issues.

That rox! sad but true, sad but funny...

biochik007 wrote:
] w1ld wrote:
] ] mp3 of Kerry support both sides of many issues.
]
] That rox! sad but true, sad but funny...

Actually, its not true. Its standard issue political dishonesty, and the people who buy into it are the problem with this country. I mean it.

Political issues are complex. The way that politicians manipulate you is by pretending that they are not. This works as follows:

1. Say you are going to do A. (Example: Save the children.)
2. Demonstrate that A is good. (The children are at risk!)
3. Ask people if they support A. (Don't you want to save the children?!)
4. Once people have expressed support for A, propose legislation that includes both A and B (Section A says we want to save the children. Section B proposes doing do by disposing of toxic waste by turning into candy and distributing it on Halloween.)
5. When people vote against your legislation because of section B, accuse them of opposing section A. (How dare you suggest that we shouldn't save the children! Don't you want to save the children!?)
6. If all else fails, accuse your opponent of being inconsistent. (First, you said you wanted to save the children. Now you say you don't.)
7. Never actually discuss part B.

Everyone will go along with it, because they are too fucking stupid to bother to actually read the legislation in question. It works every time.

In this case:
1. Say that you are going to disarm Saddam Hussein.
2. Publish intelligence information of questionable value (in one case ripped verbatim from a college student's class report) supporting the idea that Saddam is an imminent threat. No one can question this information because you control the intelligence services and they sign off on the intel.
3. Ask Congress to pass a resolution supporting your effort to disarm Saddam Hussein.
4. Once the resolution has passed, blow off the international allies who typically provide the financing for such military adventures and launch a pre-emptive war that significantly undermines established international law concerning military conflicts (only as a last resort, only in self defense).
5. When people oppose you because of part 4, accuse them of opposing the idea of disarming Saddam Hussein. Make sure you completely confuse the concepts of what was done and how it was done.
6. If all else fails, accuse your opponent of flip-flopping (First, you said you wanted the war, now you say you oppose it.)
7. Don't talk about how we're going to pay for this. When it turns out that there is no WMD, claim we are there to support democracy, while simultaneously stating that you are fine with an Islamic Fundamentalist state in Iraq if thats what the people there want.

This is how politicians fuck you. Bend over. You are being fucked.

Decius wrote:
] biochik007 wrote:
] ] w1ld wrote:
] ] ] mp3 of Kerry support both sides of many issues.
] ]
] ] That rox! sad but true, sad but funny...
]
] Actually, its not true. Its standard issue political
] dishonesty, and the people who buy into it are the problem
] with this country. I mean it.
]
] Political issues are complex. The way that politicians
] manipulate you is by pretending that they are not. This works
] as follows:
]
] 1. Say you are going to do A. (Example: Save the children.)
] 2. Demonstrate that A is good. (The children are at risk!)
] 3. Ask people if they support A. (Don't you want to save the
] children?!)
] 4. Once people have expressed support for A, propose
] legislation that includes both A and B (Section A says we want
] to save the children. Section B proposes doing do by disposing
] of toxic waste by turning into candy and distributing it on
] Halloween.)
] 5. When people vote against your legislation because of
] section B, accuse them of opposing section A. (How dare you
] suggest that we shouldn't save the children! Don't you want to
] save the children!?)
] 6. If all else fails, accuse your opponent of being
] inconsistent. (First, you said you wanted to save the
] children. Now you say you don't.)
] 7. Never actually discuss part B.
]
] Everyone will go along with it, because they are too fucking
] stupid to bother to actually read the legislation in question.
] It works every time.
]
] In this case:
] 1. Say that you are going to disarm Saddam Hussein.
] 2. Publish intelligence information of questionable value (in
] one case ripped verbatim from a college student's class
] report) supporting the idea that Saddam is an imminent threat.
] No one can question this information because you control the
] intelligence services and they sign off on the intel.
] 3. Ask Congress to pass a resolution supporting your effort to
] disarm Saddam Hussein.
] 4. Once the resolution has passed, blow off the international
] allies who typically provide the financing for such military
] adventures and launch a pre-emptive war that significantly
] undermines established international law concerning military
] conflicts (only as a last resort, only in self defense).
] 5. When people oppose you because of part 4, accuse them of
] opposing the idea of disarming Saddam Hussein. Make sure you
] completely confuse the concepts of what was done and how it
] was done.
] 6. If all else fails, accuse your opponent of flip-flopping
] (First, you said you wanted the war, now you say you oppose
] it.)
] 7. Don't talk about how we're going to pay for this. When it
] turns out that there is no WMD, claim we are there to support
] democracy, while simultaneously stating that you are fine with
] an Islamic Fundamentalist state in Iraq if thats what the
] people there want.
]
] This is how politicians fuck you. Bend over. You are being
] fucked.

Agreed totally, that the politcians try to fuck you every chance they get. I was just saying that it was "true" to the point of Kerry, or whomever saying whatever they wanted., but then when questioned about it, tried to say it in a different way, to make them look better. So either way its sad, that our politics in this country have come to this sad state of ways, from what they were orignally meant to be. True that they will say one thing and then say another, just to please someone else and make themselves look good. Funny, bc it just plain sucks, and then sucks some more, so it just plain SUX! But I do agree with you Tom :)

biochik007 wrote:
] w1ld wrote:
] ] mp3 of Kerry support both sides of many issues.
]
] That rox! sad but true, sad but funny...

Actually, its not true. Its standard issue political dishonesty, and the people who buy into it are the problem with this country. I mean it.

Political issues are complex. The way that politicians manipulate you is by pretending that they are not. This works as follows:

1. Say you are going to do A. (Example: Save the children.)
2. Demonstrate that A is good. (The children are at risk!)
3. Ask people if they support A. (Don't you want to save the children?!)
4. Once people have expressed support for A, propose legislation that includes both A and B (Section A says we want to save the children. Section B proposes doing do by disposing of toxic waste by turning into candy and distributing it on Halloween.)
5. When people vote against your legislation because of section B, accuse them of opposing section A. (How dare you suggest that we shouldn't save the children! Don't you want to save the children!?)
6. If all else fails, accuse your opponent of being inconsistent. (First, you said you wanted to save the children. Now you say you don't.)
7. Never actually discuss part B.

Everyone will go along with it, because they are too fucking stupid to bother to actually read the legislation in question. It works every time.

In this case:
1. Say that you are going to disarm Saddam Hussein.
2. Publish intelligence information of questionable value (in one case ripped verbatim from a college student's class report) supporting the idea that Saddam is an imminent threat. No one can question this information because you control the intelligence services and they sign off on the intel.
3. Ask Congress to pass a resolution supporting your effort to disarm Saddam Hussein.
4. Once the resolution has passed, blow off the international allies who typically provide the financing for such military adventures and launch a pre-emptive war that significantly undermines established international law concerning military conflicts (only as a last resort, only in self defense).
5. When people oppose you because of part 4, accuse them of opposing the idea of disarming Saddam Hussein. Make sure you completely confuse the concepts of what was done and how it was done.
6. If all else fails, accuse your opponent of flip-flopping (First, you said you wanted the war, now you say you oppose it.)
7. Don't talk about how we're going to pay for this. When it turns out that there is no WMD, claim we are there to support democracy, while simultaneously stating that you are fine with an Islamic Fundamentalist state in Iraq if thats what the people there want.

This is how politicians fuck you. Bend over. You are being fucked.

biochik007 wrote:
] w1ld wrote:
] ] mp3 of Kerry support both sides of many issues.
]
] That rox! sad but true, sad but funny...

Actually, its not true. Its standard issue political dishonesty, and the people who buy into it are the problem with this country. I mean it.

Political issues are complex. The way that politicians manipulate you is by pretending that they are not.

...

This is how politicians fuck you. Bend over. You are being fucked.

[ Hear hear! What Decius enumerates is one of the most asinine and insidious threats to public discourse in this country, and the republicans fucking love it. And no, i'm not saying it's never been done by a dem, but it seems to be a part of the standard playbook on the red side of the aisle.

It's patently dishonest and it's only the fact that the public gets turned off by the word "lies" that we don't hear it called what it is. As Bill Clinton said of the Democratic Party : "When people think, we win." In other words, when you cut through all the bullshit, dem policies get support. The other side has a vested interest in confusing you. -k]

k wrote:
] biochik007 wrote:
] ] w1ld wrote:
] ] ] mp3 of Kerry support both sides of many issues.
] ]
] ] That rox! sad but true, sad but funny...
]
] Actually, its not true. Its standard issue political
] dishonesty, and the people who buy into it are the problem
] with this country. I mean it.

I completely agree. That's the reason that the Republicans are
so successful. They keep spewing the same exact rhetoric over and
over again. The general public, who are simpletons, believe every
word of it. If you tell them enough times that Saddam Hussein
introduced AIDS to the American public, they will support bombing the shit out of his country.

Yes, I realize that all politicians bend the truth for political gain, but the Republicans are lying to everybody left and right. The sad part is that nobody other than the Daily Show is calling them out on it. Seriously, whiskey tango foxtrot? I don't claim that John Kerry is perfect. I know that there is no perfect candidate, but I truly believe that the world is a much worse off place since George W. got sworn in.

That is all...

biochik007 wrote:
] w1ld wrote:
] ] mp3 of Kerry support both sides of many issues.
]
] That rox! sad but true, sad but funny...

Actually, its not true. Its standard issue political dishonesty, and the people who buy into it are the problem with this country. I mean it.

Political issues are complex. The way that politicians manipulate you is by pretending that they are not. This works as follows:

1. Say you are going to do A. (Example: Save the children.)
2. Demonstrate that A is good. (The children are at risk!)
3. Ask people if they support A. (Don't you want to save the children?!)
4. Once people have expressed support for A, propose legislation that includes both A and B (Section A says we want to save the children. Section B proposes doing do by disposing of toxic waste by turning into candy and distributing it on Halloween.)
5. When people vote against your legislation because of section B, accuse them of opposing section A. (How dare you suggest that we shouldn't save the children! Don't you want to save the children!?)
6. If all else fails, accuse your opponent of being inconsistent. (First, you said you wanted to save the children. Now you say you don't.)
7. Never actually discuss part B.

Everyone will go along with it, because they are too fucking stupid to bother to actually read the legislation in question. It works every time.

In this case:
1. Say that you are going to disarm Saddam Hussein.
2. Publish intelligence information of questionable value (in one case ripped verbatim from a college student's class report) supporting the idea that Saddam is an imminent threat. No one can question this information because you control the intelligence services and they sign off on the intel.
3. Ask Congress to pass a resolution supporting your effort to disarm Saddam Hussein.
4. Once the resolution has passed, blow off the international allies who typically provide the financing for such military adventures and launch a pre-emptive war that significantly undermines established international law concerning military conflicts (only as a last resort, only in self defense).
5. When people oppose you because of part 4, accuse them of opposing the idea of disarming Saddam Hussein. Make sure you completely confuse the concepts of what was done and how it was done.
6. If all else fails, accuse your opponent of flip-flopping (First, you said you wanted the war, now you say you oppose it.)
7. Don't talk about how we're going to pay for this. When it turns out that there is no WMD, claim we are there to support democracy, while simultaneously stating that you are fine with an Islamic Fundamentalist state in Iraq if thats what the people there want.

This is how politicians fuck you. Bend over. You are being fucked.

Political issues are complex. The way that politicians manipulate you is by pretending that they are not. This works as follows:

1. Say you are going to do A. (Example: Save the children.)
2. Demonstrate that A is good. (The children are at risk!)
3. Ask people if they support A. (Don't you want to save the children?!)
4. Once people have expressed support for A, propose legislation that includes both A and B (Section A says we want to save the children. Section B proposes doing do by disposing of toxic waste by turning into candy and distributing it on Halloween.)
5. When people vote against your legislation because of section B, accuse them of opposing section A. (How dare you suggest that we shouldn't save the children! Don't you want to save the children!?)
6. If all else fails, accuse your opponent of being inconsistent. (First, you said you wanted to save the children. Now you say you don't.)
7. Never actually discuss part B.

[snip]

This is how politicians fuck you. Bend over. You are being fucked.

[ You boiled the issue down to it's essense and left a very clinical picture of what actually goes on. Good job. ]

w1ld wrote:
] mp3 of Kerry support both sides of many issues.

stop stop stop stop STOP hurting America, w1ld :-D