Acidus wrote:
] ]
] ] The truck is hydrogen-powered and creates its own fuel
] ] from solar energy and water, a technical feat that rivals
] ] the advanced technology being researched by major auto
] ] companies and universities. The four-cylinder engine is
] ] tuned to run on hydrogen, which is produced by a
] ] hand-built electrolysis system mounted in the bed.
] ]
] ] Teacher Cory Waxman and his students took four years to
] ] build the experiment, believed to be the only
] ] self-sustaining hydrogen vehicle that uses a conventional
] ] internal-combustion engine.

Interesting... I thought of the same thing 25 years ago when I was first shown electrolyisis of water in JR High science. A car that "runs on water" (with more than a little help from the sun).

Not to rain on these kids parade, but they are wasting a LOT of energy cracking the H2O molecules to separate the hydrogen and oxygen. I seem to recall the conversion efficency for electrolyisis being less that 50 percent. Much more efficent to simply take the electricity from the photo voltaics and directly drive electric motors.

Its a neat idea though and kudos to them for doing it. Its this thinking outside the box that is needed to solve the energy crisis.

LB

Laughing Boy wrote:

]
] Not to rain on these kids parade, but they are wasting a LOT
] of energy cracking the H2O molecules to separate the hydrogen
] and oxygen. I seem to recall the conversion efficency for
] electrolyisis being less that 50 percent. Much more efficent
] to simply take the electricity from the photo voltaics and
] directly drive electric motors.
]
] Its a neat idea though and kudos to them for doing it. Its
] this thinking outside the box that is needed to solve the
] energy crisis.
]
] LB

But then you could only drive during the day. The car these guys came up with works in the dark. ;)

Dolemite

Laughing Boy wrote:
] Acidus wrote:
] ] ]
] ] ] The truck is hydrogen-powered and creates its own fuel
] ] ] from solar energy and water, a technical feat that rivals
] ] ] the advanced technology being researched by major auto
] ] ] companies and universities. The four-cylinder engine is
] ] ] tuned to run on hydrogen, which is produced by a
] ] ] hand-built electrolysis system mounted in the bed.
] ] ]
] ] ] Teacher Cory Waxman and his students took four years to
] ] ] build the experiment, believed to be the only
] ] ] self-sustaining hydrogen vehicle that uses a conventional
] ] ] internal-combustion engine.
]
] Interesting... I thought of the same thing 25 years ago when
] I was first shown electrolyisis of water in JR High science.
] A car that "runs on water" (with more than a little help from
] the sun).
]
] Not to rain on these kids parade, but they are wasting a LOT
] of energy cracking the H2O molecules to separate the hydrogen
] and oxygen. I seem to recall the conversion efficency for
] electrolyisis being less that 50 percent. Much more efficent
] to simply take the electricity from the photo voltaics and
] directly drive electric motors.
]
] Its a neat idea though and kudos to them for doing it. Its
] this thinking outside the box that is needed to solve the
] energy crisis.

Dolemite is right. You need a storage mechanism for the power generated through PV, and batteries don't seem to be moving at a fast enough clip developmentally to service cars effectively. Too much weight and complexity. It can be arguable that pure hydrogen might not be the best storage medium either, but it's truly sustainable and leapfrogs other storage media like metal hydrides or other hydro-solids. The challenges are that hydrogen requires tremendous pressures to be stored, which requires more safety engineering and power draw for compressors/gauges, etc.

Electrolysis is not necessarily inefficient either. There are production systems that are pushing 70%, and the next practical wave out of the lab could push that to 80%. When you couple that with the fact that it's a FREE and SUSTAINABLE energy supply, it's quite good. Considering that the energy produced from fossil fuels in combustion engines in most cars hovers around 35%, you're already well ahead of the game. There's simply no comparison.

If you did true cost accounting to determine the amount of energy consumed to drill, transport, refine, transport again, and deliver fossil fuels, then to only get around 35% of that total energy providing work, um... it's deeply in the negative.

I think the most impressive choice made with this project (out of many) is the hybrid ENGINE, running on pure hydrogen OR fossil fuels. So you have effectively solved TWO really annoying problems: storage of energy, and the transition impact of the refueling infrastructure. BRILLIANT!