I think they shouldn't force the religion to make an exception. It's good that we have inane philosphies which make no logical sense. I don't think its a problem with organized religion, I'm pretty sure that's how its supposed to work. If they are forced into making an exception, It would force them into hypocracy (which they do well enough on their own, withoutany help). So, this girl is basically rejected for the same reasons a black person would be rejected by the KKK...I think it puts the two organizations on par, as should be.

k wrote:
] This article points to one of many of my problems with
] organized religion. What has the content of the wafer has to
] do with accepting Jesus as your Savior? Why should the
] content of the wafer have anything to do with your acceptance
] into the church?
]
] More importantly, do the church leaders honestly think that
] Jesus Christ would deny this little girl communion on account
] of a digestive order?
]
] [ Because, dude, if it's not wheat it won't *actually*
] transmute into the body of Christ. Only wheat has the power
] to become the flesh of Jesus. Rice wafers only transmute into
] Jesus' sweat, or if you're really lucky, a hair or something.
] And that's just not sufficient. I guess she'll just have to
] burn in hell.
]
] Stupid religion. Morons seem to attribute a lot of hateful
] and malicious viewpoints to Jesus. If the word Christian
] actually meant "follower of the teachings of Jesus" rather
] than "psychotic, rigid, moralist who conflates any part of the
] bible necessary to reinforce hate and bigotry" i might still
] call myself one. -k]

terratogen wrote:
] I think they shouldn't force the religion to make an
] exception. It's good that we have inane philosphies which
] make no logical sense. I don't think its a problem with
] organized religion, I'm pretty sure that's how its supposed to
] work. If they are forced into making an exception, It would
] force them into hypocracy (which they do well enough on their
] own, withoutany help). So, this girl is basically rejected
] for the same reasons a black person would be rejected by the
] KKK...I think it puts the two organizations on par, as should
] be.

[ Well, i'm not sure i put modern christan churches quite on the same level as the KKK, by which I mean, I think that's pretty extreme hyperbole. not that the catholic church didn't kill more people in their time than the KKK could ever aspire to, but i'm talking present.

anyway, i don't think they should make an exception, per se, forced or otherwise. i think they should change their dogma when it's shown to make no goddamn sense, as i think this case does. i'm also not sure exceptions are equal to hypocracy, but i won't argue that there aren't plenty of both in any large organization... i just think the real answer is to concentrate on the fundamental principles of what you wish to express or promote, and then work to be sure everything fits. Change or excise what doesn't. The reason, of course, that it's so hard for giant organizations (religious or otherwise) to do this, is that there is never one concrete view on what those fundamentals are, and lots of institutional inertia built up to oppose change. Among other reasons, this is why i don't go to church, even though i like the music. -k]

I think religions and philosphical organizations should not be forced into an exceptions because it removes the "magic" BS element which is crucial to some faiths. My problems with organized religions is usually related to the attempt to coerce or force into compliance people not of the religion into buying into their "magic". But they should be allowed to believe whatever nonsense they feel like, and if that doctrine decides that god just want that girl to suffer, it is a meer paltry example of masochism which the doctrine requires of its subjects.
Go say ten hail mary's, and god will forgive you... If you don't go to church and suffer through the whole thing every sunday, you will go to hell... Somedays, god wants you to be splashed with water... god also wants your money... Priests are not allowed to have normal sex, and neither are the nuns... You can't use birth control, and you can't have abortions...Hell, for whatever arbitrary bull they think they can make you beleive is "magic" they will have you do. Just add wheat allergy to the list. It's god's way of letting the girl know his followers are idiots.

k wrote:
] [ Well, i'm not sure i put modern christan churches quite on
] the same level as the KKK, by which I mean, I think that's
] pretty extreme hyperbole. not that the catholic church didn't
] kill more people in their time than the KKK could ever aspire
] to, but i'm talking present.
]
] anyway, i don't think they should make an exception, per se,
] forced or otherwise. i think they should change their dogma
] when it's shown to make no goddamn sense, as i think this case
] does. i'm also not sure exceptions are equal to hypocracy,
] but i won't argue that there aren't plenty of both in any
] large organization... i just think the real answer is to
] concentrate on the fundamental principles of what you wish to
] express or promote, and then work to be sure everything fits.
] Change or excise what doesn't. The reason, of course, that
] it's so hard for giant organizations (religious or otherwise)
] to do this, is that there is never one concrete view on what
] those fundamentals are, and lots of institutional inertia
] built up to oppose change. Among other reasons, this is why i
] don't go to church, even though i like the music. -k]

k wrote:
] This article points to one of many of my problems with
] organized religion. What has the content of the wafer has to
] do with accepting Jesus as your Savior? Why should the
] content of the wafer have anything to do with your acceptance
] into the church?
]
] More importantly, do the church leaders honestly think that
] Jesus Christ would deny this little girl communion on account
] of a digestive order?
]
] [ Because, dude, if it's not wheat it won't *actually*
] transmute into the body of Christ. Only wheat has the power
] to become the flesh of Jesus. Rice wafers only transmute into
] Jesus' sweat, or if you're really lucky, a hair or something.
] And that's just not sufficient. I guess she'll just have to
] burn in hell.
]
] Stupid religion. Morons seem to attribute a lot of hateful
] and malicious viewpoints to Jesus. If the word Christian
] actually meant "follower of the teachings of Jesus" rather
] than "psychotic, rigid, moralist who conflates any part of the
] bible necessary to reinforce hate and bigotry" i might still
] call myself one. -k]

Don't hate Catholicism for not making a reasonable exception. Hate it for being purely wrong. Particularly in this case.

All the gospel accounts of the last supper clearly indicate that Jesus used UNLEAVENED bread. Meaning there was no wheat in it at all. In fact, there was nothing in it other than flour (most likely milled with the germ and chaff removed prior to milling, as was the custom at the time), some water, and *maybe* some salt. This was done purposefully to represent his body being perfect (being the son of God and all), hence no additives or preservatives or the wheat germ. The same thing with the wine. It was likely pure table wine, with no additives or preservatives (or drugs, like mirhh).

The reason why we can be pretty sure about this is because Jesus was Jewish and they were celebrating the Passover. These are the typical accoutrements for the celebration. It's likely that Catholicism changed this practice (like so many others) in an effort to reach harmony with non-Christians and help recruiting. In this case, pretty much only the Jews regularly make unleavened bread and since we don't want any of those dirty Jews in our new faith, we'll have to change a few things.

Read the damned book for yourselves people. Don't let the Polack in the funny hat read it for you and tell you what it means, because he's wrong.

flynn23 wrote:
] Don't hate Catholicism for not making a reasonable exception.
] Hate it for being purely wrong. Particularly in this case.

[ As it turns out, my dislike of organized religion is precicely based on the parts they got wrong, and subsequently replaced with mindless, repetitive pablum. As you say in your last statement, people should read the bible and then discuss what it says. That's not to say there's no place for experts to guide the discussion, and if a church manages to work that way, then I'm all for it. I just don't think very many do so. ...]

] All the gospel accounts of the last supper clearly indicate
] that Jesus used UNLEAVENED bread. Meaning there was no wheat
] in it at all. In fact, there was nothing in it other than
] flour (most likely milled with the germ and chaff removed
] prior to milling, as was the custom at the time), some water,
] and *maybe* some salt.

[ I thought unleavened meant "without yeast or other rising agent." Flour made with wheat is still wheat based, no? Even with the chaff and germ removed? Anyway, that's not the point of the argument anyway... the point is that dogma shouldn't replace thought, no matter what the origins. With that, I agree. -k]

k wrote:
] flynn23 wrote:
] ] Don't hate Catholicism for not making a reasonable
] exception.
] ] Hate it for being purely wrong. Particularly in this case.

] [ I thought unleavened meant "without yeast or other rising
] agent." Flour made with wheat is still wheat based, no? Even
] with the chaff and germ removed? Anyway, that's not the point
] of the argument anyway... the point is that dogma shouldn't
] replace thought, no matter what the origins. With that, I
] agree. -k]

You are correct. I meant to say 'yeast' in that sentence. The point being that it doesn't have to be concocted from a specific recipe, as long as it is 'pure' in its representation. Do you think that prisoners of war are cast into hell because they can't partake of the emblems while in prison? I think 'best effort' counts in situations like these.

But the real point is that God doesn't need Man to enforce rules or delve into the minutae of things in order to see what's in people's hearts.

flynn23 wrote:
]
] Don't hate Catholicism for not making a reasonable exception.
] Hate it for being purely wrong. Particularly in this case.
]
Reminds me of an old Monty Python scene:

Dad: The mill's closed. There's no more work, we're destitute.

[Lots of cries of 'Oh no!'... 'Cripes'... 'Heck'... from

around the room.]

I've got no option but to sell you all for scientific

experiments. [The children protest with heart-rending pleas.]

No no, that's the way it is my loves... Blame the Catholic

church for not letting me wear one of those little rubber

things... Oh they've done some wonderful things in their time,

they preserved the might and majesty, even the mystery of the

Church of Rome, the sanctity of the sacrament and the

indivisible oneness of the Trinity, but if they'd let me wear

one of the little rubber things on the end of my cock we

wouldn't be in the mess we are now.

Little Boy: Couldn't Mummy have worn some sort of pessary?

Dad: Not if we're going to remain members of the fastest growing

religion in the world, my boy... You see, we believe... well,

let me put it like this...

(SNIP)

Every sperm is sacred,

Every sperm is great,

If a sperm is wasted,

God gets quite irate.

k wrote:
] This article points to one of many of my problems with
] organized religion. What has the content of the wafer has to
] do with accepting Jesus as your Savior? Why should the
] content of the wafer have anything to do with your acceptance
] into the church?
]
] More importantly, do the church leaders honestly think that
] Jesus Christ would deny this little girl communion on account
] of a digestive order?
]
] [ Because, dude, if it's not wheat it won't *actually*
] transmute into the body of Christ. Only wheat has the power
] to become the flesh of Jesus. Rice wafers only transmute into
] Jesus' sweat, or if you're really lucky, a hair or something.
] And that's just not sufficient. I guess she'll just have to
] burn in hell.
]
] Stupid religion. Morons seem to attribute a lot of hateful
] and malicious viewpoints to Jesus. If the word Christian
] actually meant "follower of the teachings of Jesus" rather
] than "psychotic, rigid, moralist who conflates any part of the
] bible necessary to reinforce hate and bigotry" i might still
] call myself one. -k]

Sigh...what a bunch of idiots, if they would take the time and actually think about it for a second. It (the wafer) is symbolic, in the communion process, so HELLO!!! Just another damn power trip to me, its just got to be "this" way. Well who says? Because the Bible is translated from its original language, and perhaps some of the original words were "lost" or reworded in the translations, so no one (cept God) knows "Exactly" what he meant when it was written.

biochik007 wrote:
] Sigh...what a bunch of idiots, if they would take the time and
] actually think about it for a second. It (the wafer) is
] symbolic, in the communion process, so HELLO!!! Just another
] damn power trip to me, its just got to be "this" way. Well who
] says? Because the Bible is translated from its original
] language, and perhaps some of the original words were "lost"
] or reworded in the translations, so no one (cept God) knows
] "Exactly" what he meant when it was written.

[ Not to mention that it was probably written at all kinds of different times over the years. And of course the part about Jesus basically tossing out the old testament. -k]

k wrote:
] biochik007 wrote:
] ] Sigh...what a bunch of idiots, if they would take the time
] and
] ] actually think about it for a second. It (the wafer) is
] ] symbolic, in the communion process, so HELLO!!! Just another
]
] ] damn power trip to me, its just got to be "this" way. Well
] who
] ] says? Because the Bible is translated from its original
] ] language, and perhaps some of the original words were "lost"
]
] ] or reworded in the translations, so no one (cept God) knows
] ] "Exactly" what he meant when it was written.
]
] [ Not to mention that it was probably written at all kinds of
] different times over the years. And of course the part about
] Jesus basically tossing out the old testament. -k]

Exactly, another good point, well said! :)

skullaria wrote:
] This just ISN'T Christian.....

]
] Stupid religion. Morons seem to attribute a lot of hateful
] and malicious viewpoints to Jesus. If the word Christian
] actually meant "follower of the teachings of Jesus" rather
] than "psychotic, rigid, moralist who conflates any part of the
] bible necessary to reinforce hate and bigotry" i might still
] call myself one. -k]

New Marketing Campaign.

Catholicism: Missing the point for nearly 2000 years...

It deeply saddens me that the catholic flock have not yet seen through the whole transparent ruse that the Vatican has held them under for all these years.