Golem wrote:
] flynn23 wrote:
] ]
] ] You're kidding right?
] ]
] ] You're more concerned about your daily commute versus this
] ] woman's right to protest? Why did the 'authorities' refuse
] her
] ] request for a permit? Why are 'protesters' being wrangled up
]
] ] in a barbed-wire fenced off area, jokingly referred to as
] the
] ] 'free-speech zone'? Why does the RNC require 3x the amount
] of
] ] security detail than the DNC does? Not to say that the DNC
] ] somehow earned a repreive from this kinda stuff, but you've
] ] got to expect a bit more vitrial against the RNC considering
]
] ] that millions of people rioted and protested worldwide when
] ] our current administration decided to invade a
] non-threatening
] ] country.
]
] *** Non-threatening country? Iraq invaded Kuwait. Iraq
] slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent people, using
] chemical weapons that they developed. Iraq made certain
] agreements in order to end the first Gulf War. Iraq
] consistently and intentionally violated those agreements,
] including one major clause of allowing inspectors to monitor
] their weapons activities. Iraq refused to cooperate on terms
] that Iraq itself agreed to. In the past, they had tons of
] chemical and biological weapons, and had also researched and
] actively pursued nuclear weapons. Their is possible evidence
] these weapons have now been moved to other surrounding
] nations. Bottom line -- hardly the actions of a
] non-threatening country.

yeah. Non-threatening country. Because despite all of what you list off, the fact remains that the reasons given to the American people to invade Iraq were all bogus. Iraq didn't declare war against the USA. Iraq doesn't have the capability of invading the USA or any of its allies. Iraq doesn't have the capability to even attack it's neighbors or Israel. Iraq didn't sponsor Al Queda or Bin Laden. Iraq had no role in the 9/11 incidents, other than to publically praise them. Iraq's agreements post Gulf War were with the UN, not the USA, so it wasn't the USA's responsibility to enforce or escalate that agreement.

So I ask you, where's the threat? What is the clearly impending action by Iraq that necessitated immediate "shock and awe" military action by the USA? When in the past 200+ years has the USA pre-emptively invaded another country? What is the rational reason why we, as taxpayers and citizens, are now saddled with a $400B+ defecit within 2 years, and the loss or permanent injury of nearly 4000 of our young people? And how is it that this action was largely committed without prior authorization by your representatives in Congress and the Senate?

] ] I find it atrocious that people will use inclement weather
] as
] ] an excuse to telecommute in a second, but when we've
] actually
] ] got something *important* going on, like exercising our
] ] democratic right to voice our opinions, then it somehow
] ] becomes an inconvenience.
] ]
] *** I do believe in the right to protest, but it does have to
] be done in a way that doesn't endanger other citizens of our
] country.

I don't think anyone said anything about 'endangering'. The thread was begun because people were expecting 'inconveniences.' That's hardly the same thing (although in a British humor sort of way, it could be the same thing).

] Protestors saying they are going to 'wreak havoc'
] isn't the best way to get a permit. Either get a permit by
] displaying peaceful ways to protest, or get arrested
] protesting other ways. Read below for more on havoc.

I don't know that a permit is required. Sure, I think you demonstrate a spirit of cooperation and peacefulness when you do acquire a permit. But there's no law that I'm aware of that forces a permit as a prerequisite to congregate. Doing so would completely negate most of what makes the USA great. Freedom of thought. Freedom of religion. The pursuit of life, liberty and happiness. Flash mobs would be illegal. THEN what would we do?

Consider the logic behind laws requiring permits for congregation for a moment. If one were to want to protest the government's actions but needed a permit to do so, it would upset the checks and balances in the Founding Father's designs, allowing the government to simply deny said permit for protesting. OOPS! TOO LATE!

] ] And no, it doesn't matter whether most of these people are
] ] there just to wreak havoc. If we only allowed 'legal'
] protest
] ] and 'non-disturbing' signs of discord, then we would've
] never
] ] had the civil rights movement or women's suffridge.
] Especially
] ] considering that this administration has found it absolutely
]
] ] necessary to trample on your civil rights, invade your
] ] privacy, re-write fundamental pieces of the constitution,
] and
] ] use lies and subterfudge to counter its enemies (including
] its
] ] own citizens), I'd say that pretty much _anything_ will be
] ] considered illegal if they were left to continue their
] current
] ] course.
]
] *** I do agree that sometimes havoc is necessary. Personally I
] don't think this is a cause for it, however women's sufferage
] and the civil rights movement were valid causes.

Yer right. Invading non-threatening countries (see above), misappropriating funds to do so, putting our citizens in harms way without prior authorization, rounding up citizens without due process, lieing to the citizens about the rationale behind these actions, rewriting the constitution to suit your purposes, blurring the line between Christianity and Government in defiance of the constitution, getting key members of the administration off the hook for breaches of fiduciary responsibility and ethics violations, profiting personally from the war that you instigated, silencing critics of your policies with threats and intimidation, and setting up key policies without democratic process are no reason to wreak havoc.

Now that chicks and niggers can vote, we're DONE!

] *** However, how have our rights been trampled on? How has
] your privacy been invaded? Answer this on a personal level,
] then as a whole.

Personally, I don't like the rising tide of anti-citizen behavior. When people who used to be classified as tinkerers, or hackers, or thought leaders, or (shudder) radical thinkers are now classified as terrorists or enemy combatants, rounded up without due process, or hassled into bankruptcy - that's personally concerning.

Being that I travel frequently for my profession, I constantly have to endure the schizophrenic 'terror alert' yo-yo of having my shoes checked, my bags emptied in front of a hundred strangers, my keys confiscated because my key chain could be used as a weapon, my identification required to travel around my own country, and the constant threat that these very words I'm typing might be slurped up by some FBI lackey and designated as too threatening for our God Bless America society.

And I'm a *white guy with blonde hair and blue eyes*! Not to mention two grandfathers who were decorated veterans. I cringe thinking about my Pakistani friends, or my Yemeni friends, or my Saudi friends, or the one Greek guy I know, who have to endure countless acts of prejudice, scrutiny, and undue suspician from their own countrymen.

RE: New York Braces for Protests