Decius wrote:
] This year's Phreaknic T-shirt art is pretty cool.

I'm not all that impressed.

Maybe this is the year we rollerblade around the con. I mean, all hackers can rollerblade after all. From the title, I'm thinking Skate or Die reference. Looking at it, I'm thinking Tony Hawk PS2 games. None of which has anything to do with hacking, and only the most vague connection to the techno-apocalypse.

Has the Nashville scene gone skater chick? I kinda think it would be cool if it did, but otherwise this does not really say "hacker con" in any way. It doesn't really elude to any kind of technology and culture theme. The main reason the old ones worked was due to the fact they featured babes with data ports, buttons, wires coming out of them, and even the occasional alcoholic beverage.

Rattle wrote:
] Maybe this is the year we rollerblade around the con. I mean,
] all hackers can rollerblade after all. From the title, I'm
] thinking Skate or Die reference. Looking at it, I'm thinking
] Tony Hawk PS2 games. None of which has anything to do with
] hacking, and only the most vague connection to the
] techno-apocalypse.

Obviously you were never a skater. Skateboarding is not at all anything like roller blading. Roller Blading is an extension of roller skating, which is something that 12 year old girls do at birthday parties. It started as a way to practice hockey in the summer time, which is about as mainstream as you can get.

Skateboarding is a subculture that, like graffiti, seeks to repurpose the utilitarian urban landscape for a creative, artistic endeavor. Hacking is very similar is its purpose. In fact, Goldstein once wrote that he figured out that hacking was cool when he realized how similar it was to skateboarding.

Skateboarding and hacking both fit into a zone of moral ambiguity. They are neither "good" nor are they clearly "evil." Baby Boomers, on the whole, are very abstract in their thinking and they like moral absolutes. They like things to be either right or wrong. ("With us or against us.") Our generation latched onto things like skateboarding and hacking when we where going though our rebellious stage of personality development because they put us in places that adults had difficultly fitting into their world view. These are subcultures that perfectly exploit a weakness in the dominant Baby Boomer conceptions of how things work. They couldn't support skateboarding, but clearly it was wrong to oppose it as well. Moral ambiguity is not something that Baby Boomers can parse.

I refer you to one of the best links that has ever been posted to this site:

http://www.urbanstructure.com/urbanaction/ps.html
http://www.memestreams.net/thread/bid4869/

] Has the Nashville scene gone skater chick? I kinda think it
] would be cool if it did, but otherwise this does not really
] say "hacker con" in any way.

Its subtle. You missed it. She is rail sliding down a phone cable over a barbed wire fence.

] The main reason the old ones worked was due to the fact they
] featured babes with data ports, buttons, wires coming out of
] them, and even the occasional alcoholic beverage.

Those big breasted, scantily clad (if at all), totally objectified "cyberbabes" that have adorned various forms of hacker art including our conference are a big turn off for most of the women that are in our scene. If you're at a party with 50 guys and 3 girls, the fastest way to get the 3 girls to leave is to tack up a Playboy centerfold. The women in the hacker scene are intelligent and they want to be thought of as contributing to the culture, not as sexual objects. They are (in general) just as uncomfortable hanging out at a screening of "HaXXXor" as you and I would be hanging out at a screening of various films from gaymagix.com...

Decius wrote:
] Obviously you were never a skater. Skateboarding is not at all
] anything like roller blading. Roller Blading is an extension
] of roller skating, which is something that 12 year old girls
] do at birthday parties. It started as a way to practice hockey
] in the summer time, which is about as mainstream as you can
] get.

I was not getting down on skating. I was making an oblique reference to old criticism of Hackers the movie.

And its not the big breasted women thing either. If their were wires or something coming out of her I'd be happy. I liked the cyberpunk theme.

Rattle wrote:
] Decius wrote:
] I was not getting down on skating. I was making an oblique
] reference to old criticism of Hackers the movie.

Oh I know, but the problem with Hackers wasn't that there was a skateboard present. The problem was that the adult had a skateboard, which made him seem more immature then dark, and the kids had roller blades, which are lame. The kids should have had skateboards.

Of course, the creator of the movie wasn't really thinking about the cultural context that skateboards and roller blades fit into, which was a serious mistake. He was looking to create a feel. Having his characters moving quickly through Manhattan contributed to the feeling that they were excited and doing something important. The bad guy's skateboard was meant to tie him to the good guys and blur the line between them. This all made sense to most of the viewers. This movie wasn't meant for us...

] And its not the big breasted women thing either. If their were wires
] or something coming out of her I'd be happy. I liked the cyberpunk theme.

Thats been my take on most of that stuff as well. The women who've admonished me for wearing phreaknic t-shirts just don't understand what it is that I like about them. However, the point is important regardless. I ought to try not to make large groups of people that I want to include in my scene feel uncomfortable even if I think they don't get it.

Decius wrote:

] ] would be cool if it did, but otherwise this does not really
] ] say "hacker con" in any way.
]
] Its subtle. You missed it. She is rail sliding down a phone
] cable over a barbed wire fence.

My interpretation of the artwork, and the reason why it was chosen this year, is pretty much what you said. She is stuck in Nashville, a conservative large town/small city. This has become her prison, signified by the barbed wire. She is able to escape her prison by riding the communications lines to who knows where? PhreakNIC is the answer to that - at least, that's the marketing message. Yeah, it's very subtle. The font and colors and the way the sun are drawn are also subtle in their representation of communist red (oppression) and the influence of Asia (Rising Sun of Japan). Most people won't pick up on all of these things, but I'm sure that 90% will pick up at least one of the concepts.

] Those big breasted, scantily clad (if at all), totally
] objectified "cyberbabes" that have adorned various forms of
] hacker art including our conference are a big turn off for
] most of the women that are in our scene. If you're at a party
] with 50 guys and 3 girls, the fastest way to get the 3 girls
] to leave is to tack up a Playboy centerfold. The women in the
] hacker scene are intelligent and they want to be thought of as
] contributing to the culture, not as sexual objects. They are
] (in general) just as uncomfortable hanging out at a screening
] of "HaXXXor" as you and I would be hanging out at a screening
] of various films from gaymagix.com...

That was a requirement of the art this year when people bothered to ask - no Lara Croft type hacker chicks. Though the same actress did play a hacker and Lara Croft... hrmmm... anyway, women aren't the only people who have voiced a desire for less pornographic t-shirts.

Dolemite

Dolemite wrote:
] Decius wrote:
] My interpretation of the artwork, and the reason why it was
] chosen this year, is pretty much what you said. She is stuck
] in Nashville, a conservative large town/small city. This has
] become her prison, signified by the barbed wire.

Hrm... I took it as her getting into something she wasn't supposed to get into rather then her getting out of someplace she wasn't supposed to leave, but it works either way.

] the influence of Asia (Rising Sun of Japan).

Yeah, I caught that.

] also subtle in their representation of communist red (oppression)

Oh man, I must say I had my fill of scary ass communist imagery at HOPE. Et tu, Brutus?

http://www.zenmasterheinz.com/5thhope/rambam02.jpg

Decius wrote:
]
] Obviously you were never a skater. Skateboarding is not at all
] anything like roller blading. Roller Blading is an extension
] of roller skating, which is something that 12 year old girls
] do at birthday parties. It started as a way to practice hockey
] in the summer time, which is about as mainstream as you can
] get.
]
] Skateboarding is a subculture that, like graffiti, seeks to
] repurpose the utilitarian urban landscape for a creative,
] artistic endeavor. Hacking is very similar is its purpose. In
] fact, Goldstein once wrote that he figured out that hacking
] was cool when he realized how similar it was to skateboarding.
] ] Skateboarding and hacking both fit into a zone of moral
] ambiguity. They are neither "good" nor are they clearly
] "evil." Baby Boomers, on the whole, are very abstract in their
] thinking and they like moral absolutes. They like things to be
] either right or wrong. ("With us or against us.") Our
] generation latched onto things like skateboarding and hacking
] when we where going though our rebellious stage of personality
] development because they put us in places that adults had
] difficultly fitting into their world view. These are
] subcultures that perfectly exploit a weakness in the dominant
] Baby Boomer conceptions of how things work. They couldn't
] support skateboarding, but clearly it was wrong to oppose it
] as well. Moral ambiguity is not something that Baby Boomers
] can parse.
]] Its subtle. You missed it. She is rail sliding down a phone
] cable over a barbed wire fence.
] out at a screening
] of "HaXXXor" as you and I would be hanging out at a screening
] of various films from gaymagix.com...

Either that, or they're referencing "Hackers" the movie...

] Those big breasted, scantily clad (if at all), totally
] objectified "cyberbabes" that have adorned various forms of
] hacker art including our conference are a big turn off for
] most of the women that are in our scene. If you're at a party
] with 50 guys and 3 girls, the fastest way to get the 3 girls
] to leave is to tack up a Playboy centerfold. The women in the
] hacker scene are intelligent and they want to be thought of as
] contributing to the culture, not as sexual objects. They are
] (in general) just as uncomfortable hanging out at a screening
] of "HaXXXor" as you and I would be hanging out at a screening
] of various films from gaymagix.com...

Which definately gets its own meme :D

Gay Magix

Decius wrote:

] Obviously you were never a skater. Skateboarding is not at all
] anything like roller blading. Roller Blading is an extension
] of roller skating, which is something that 12 year old girls
] do at birthday parties. It started as a way to practice hockey
] in the summer time, which is about as mainstream as you can
] get.

maybe in Canada, but roller blading (or more accurately, inline skating) is not mainstream. In fact, most of the skater cliques around Nashville were equally involved in inline as well as skateboarding. Nashville landscape however is not very conducive to either sport, unless you're smack dab in the middle of downtown.

As for your rant about how the hackers in the movie should've been on boards, inline skates are far more manueverable and much faster than a skateboard, hence, a wise choice for our protagonists.

I found it most amusing that in a thread where you're trying to extoll the virtues of not alienating the female branch of the scene with degrading imagery, you resort to slamming inline skating by linking it with 12 year old girls at a birthday party! Talk about mixed messages! =P

flynn23 wrote:
] maybe in Canada, but roller blading (or more accurately,
] inline skating) is not mainstream. In fact, most of the skater
] cliques around Nashville were equally involved in inline as
] well as skateboarding.

The two have started to blend, but they came from different directions.

] I found it most amusing that in a thread where you're trying
] to extoll the virtues of not alienating the female branch of
] the scene with degrading imagery, you resort to slamming
] inline skating by linking it with 12 year old girls at a
] birthday party! Talk about mixed messages! =P

:) I give up...