Decius wrote:
] specialK wrote:
]
] ] I do support the Israeli side of the argument--100%. If that
]
] makes me a radical, than that's a title I am proud to own.
]
] Perhaps you have a vested interest?

*** Yes. I have a vested interest in a democratic country having the right to defend it's own citizens from 52 years of almost daily terrorist attacks.

] ] Actually, it is well-documented and entirely false that the
] ] IDF TARGETS civilians of any sort.
]
] You're right. IDF wasn't targeting civilians. They were just
] demolishing their homes. Hopefully they clear them out first.
] I misread the articles.
]
] NYT: The family members were worried that Israeli troops would
] eventually retaliate against them, possibly even destroying
] their two-story stucco house. Throughout the West Bank and
] Gaza, Israeli forces, as a deterrent strategy, have often
] destroyed the houses of families and local people who
] cooperate with the militants.

*** As most well-informed people are aware, the NYT is typically left-justified torwards the "Palestinian Plight." Hence the use of the word militant, not terrorist. However, in my eyes, local people who cooperate with a militant\terrorist are also guilty of the same crime. The same rules apply in our country as well.
]
] Haaretz: Members of the Za'anun family came out of their house
] holding sticks and rocks, and tried to drive the Al-Aqsa
] militants from their yard, most likely fearing that their
] house would be demolished if Qassam rockets were launched from
] it.
]
] Albawaba: They said residents feared that an anti-Israeli
] attack would lead to harsh and collective Israeli reprisals.
]
] BBC: A BBC correspondent says militants may have been planning
] a rocket attack, which the residents opposed for fear of
] Israeli retaliation.
]
] Last month a missile fired from the area killed two people.
]
] Israeli troops moved in soon afterwards to try to prevent
] further attacks. They have demolished homes and orchards and
] blockaded residents for more than 3 weeks.
]

***As I see it, here's the problem with that: Even if some Palestinians oppose the actions of the terrorists, it is THEIR responsibility to do something about it. Under previous Israeli\Palestinian agreements, they were provided with weapons and a police force for this purpose. Yet nothing seems to be done about this issue---and its certainly a big one, especially when you're asking for your own country.

***On occasion Israel does have to blockade areas where Palestinians have fired missiles that have killed Israeli civilians. You quoted yourself, just above, that two Israelis were killed by military fire. It is the primary job of the Israeli government and the Israeli Defense Force to defend their own citizens. If somebody is firing missiles from a house, the obvious action is to eliminate the threat.

] ] And it is easy to see that Israel has offered many
] ] peace agreements and their plan to pull out of the Gaza has
] ] been met with an actual INCREASED amount of violence.
]
] I think that their plan to pull out of Gaza was a good
] decision. You actually have to create a sense for Palestinians
] that they can in fact live next door to Isreal safely without
] being legitimately concerned that their homes and land are
] going to be taken away. Obviously, the Palestinians have a
] similar responsibility to demonstrate that they are willing to
] live peacefully with Isrealis.
]
] Of course, afraid of demonstrating weakness (as I recall),
] Isreal saw fit to launch a number of strikes at the same time
] they were pulling out. It may be fair to say that the
] Palestinians increased the amount of violence in the wake of
] the policy change (I simply don't know). So did Israel (and
] that was widely reported here).
]
***They have a stated policy of performing pinpoint operation to eliminate terrorist threats, as they are developing. Ever since Israel announced their intentions to withdraw from Gaza, a few terrorist groups have publically announced that they intend to prevent this one-sided action. They have stepped up their attempts to attack Israel, and in response, Israel has matched with an equal number of responses.

] ] But good guys? Israelis are building walls to keep
] terrorists
] ] out, even though they could easily missile and bomb the
] whole
] ] of the palestinian cities, instead they are trying to do
] ] whatever they can to keep the violence out.
]
] Isreal certainly could "missle and bomb the whole of the
] palestinian cities" but such an act would likely not go
] un-noticed by the rest of the international community.
]
] The wall itself is quite controversial. It certainly reminds
] one of the wall in Berlin. Are people allowed to cross it? How
] difficult is that? How frequently placed are the crossing
] points?

*** The wall is built to protect the Israelis from terrorist attacks that have happened on their school buses, family gatherings, cafes, malls, the list goes on. There are crossings. Yes, they are in certain places, and it does take time to cross certain crossings. They need to make sure that bombs and weapons are not being smuggled into areas where they may be used to harm Israelis. This is not the Berlin Wall, meant to take territory -- this is simply a wall meant to keep out dangerous elements that were passing through every single day until the wall was built.

*** Another stated Israeli policy -- if there were no terrorist attacks targeting Israelis, there would be no need for a wall.
]
] ] The Palestinians have BOMED these zones, more so recently,
] ] causing many to be shut down.
]
] Try not to think about them monolithically. There are
] certainly those within Isreali society who beleive that God
] granted them the land and that they ought to "missle and bomb"
] the place out and then move in. Do they represent Isreal in
] general?

*** Yes, there are probably a few Isralies that believe this However, if they ever commit acts of terror, they are prosecuted.

*** So here is the difference. There may be a few Israelis that think they ought to missile and bomb (although the sheer majority want peace, and are even willing to give up some of their land.) However, this is not what Israel actually does. There is a much larger number of Palestinians that want to shoot and bomb -- and quite unfortunately, this is what is actually happening.

RE: Palestinian teen killed trying to stop Kassam launch