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Manning
by Decius at 11:44 am EST, Mar 12, 2011

The problem with the Manning situation is that what he is alleged to have done is arguably treasonous but it wasn't necessarily motivated by the same desires, nor did it have the same consequences. The government has no choice but to nail him to the wall, to send a message to other employees to not violate their confidentiality agreements. But you look at who he actually is and what the real world consequences have been as a result of his actions and its hard to reach the tenor of those shouting for his death. There is no good answer to this problem.

I don't actually think he is being mistreated in prison. I think prison sucks, and they are genuinely afraid that either he will kill himself or one of the other prisoners will kill him (I imagine that most of his cellmates think him a traitor). In that event the exact same people who are screeching about his treatment will be screeching about their failure to protect him.

The drama is really about frustration over the fact that the government has to throw the book at him. The fact that laws meant for enemy spies don't really fit this situation exactly. This isn't exactly the same sort of situation, and the legal system hasn't really contemplated this. What sort of consequence is demanded here? I can't think of a way to balance the reality of the situation with the need to effectively deter others from doing the same thing.

Nevertheless it must be understood that every card carrying liberal in this country would be up in arms about Manning if this whole thing had gone down 6 years ago. Failure to see that is a sort of blindness I have trouble comprehending. He is against "their" war. He blew the whistle. He is being mistreated in "their" prisons. Its the invasion of Iraq and Abu Ghraib all wrapped up into a bow and the left are keeping their mouths shut about it, as well as Obama's detention policies, and his surveillance policies, etc...

The fact is that most of these people care more for their partisan allegiances than for their own internal sense of right and wrong. Their ability to follow the crowd is far more developed than their ability to decide what they think.

Back In The Swim Of Things
by noteworthy at 9:25 am EDT, Mar 13, 2011

Decius:

The fact is that most of these people care more for their partisan allegiances than for their own internal sense of right and wrong. Their ability to follow the crowd is far more developed than their ability to decide what they think.

Mark Twain:

When an entirely new and untried political project is sprung upon the people, they are startled, anxious, timid, and for a time they are mute, reserved, noncommittal. The great majority of them are not studying the new doctrine and making up their minds about it, they are waiting to see which is going to be the popular side.
It is desire to be in the swim that makes political parties.

Decius:

Tools that help you think won't do you much good if you don't know how to think for yourself.

Alan Kay:

Let us explore the meaning of the pink plane. It represents a more black and white way of portraying the universe. It declares that things are either right or wrong, they work or fail; it applauds discrete knowledge over reasoning and derivation of concepts. It is a plane of thought where math and science are memorized facts and equations.
The blue plane, on the other hand, can be described as perpendicular to the pink plane. The two planes might coincide on a line, where the same rules apply in the physical universe, and hence results can be the same, however the means is completely different. In this plane of thought, visualization of concepts and creativity can be used to accomplish what is accomplished in the pink plane by trite memorization.
It can be therefore shown that most advancement in any field has been accomplished by thought in the blue plane -- thought that in the pink plane would be deemed impossible or ridiculous.
What is to become of those of us past schooling, who are aware of these planes? Are we to dredge on with pink shades over our blue eyes? What other choice do we have, become hermits and form our own seceded blue colony?