Laughing Boy wrote:
] ] The Hanover Community School Corp. plans to use a new
] ] cafeteria cash register system, which uses fingerprints
] ] instead of meal cards to charge students.
]
] Call me crazy... but my highschool had I think a magstripe or
] barcode reader for scanning student photo IDs. It seemed to
] work really well at keeping track of who bought what in the
] cafeteria without conjuring scary Orwellian "Big Brother"
] images. I fail to see why a biometric system is necessary in
] a school cafeteria.

Its really convenient because you never have a situation where you "forgot your lunchcard." Its also less expensive then issueing cards.

The neat thing about this application is that its a small, closed system. If the data being collected is not useful for law enforcement purposes, and its not networked, then there really isn't much to worry about here. The implications are different in other contexts. I would be more concerned about the fact that state is likely stamping the students fingerprints on to the back of their driver's licenses with 2d bar codes...

Decius wrote:
] Laughing Boy wrote:
] ] ] The Hanover Community School Corp. plans to use a new
] ] ] cafeteria cash register system, which uses fingerprints
] ] ] instead of meal cards to charge students.
] ]
] ] Call me crazy... but my highschool had I think a magstripe
] or
] ] barcode reader for scanning student photo IDs. It seemed to
]
] ] work really well at keeping track of who bought what in the
] ] cafeteria without conjuring scary Orwellian "Big Brother"
] ] images. I fail to see why a biometric system is necessary
] in
] ] a school cafeteria.
]
] Its really convenient because you never have a situation where
] you "forgot your lunchcard." Its also less expensive then
] issueing cards.

It is convenient, but it also does not encourage kids to keep track of their belongings. "Lost your ID? Bad kitty! No lunch 4 u!" Of course it was never like that back in my HS days - you could step aside and fill out a form and go thru the red tape... which was a pain in the ass. And if you made a habit of it a couple days in a row, they would send you to the office to get a new ID card issued. All of which took away part of your lunch period; time you got to spend with your friends, eating, studying, etc. "forget/misplace ID = BAD!"

] The neat thing about this application is that its a small,
] closed system. If the data being collected is not useful for
] law enforcement purposes, and its not networked, then there
] really isn't much to worry about here. The implications are
] different in other contexts. I would be more concerned about
] the fact that state is likely stamping the students
] fingerprints on to the back of their driver's licenses with 2d
] bar codes...

There is that too... there is also the fact that at some point the schools biometric system WILL be upgraded. Say next generation is a system that DOES keep an image of the thumb print. Then into a networked system. "What? Why didn't we tell you about the 'system upgrades'? Because we didn't think it was that big a deal - the system was already in place and old hardware needed replacing." And at that point, law enforcement has the teeth to step in and say "we need access to these records you have in conjunction with the investigation of a crime." A few people will make a stink, but wont make loud enough of a voice to stop it, because its already in place and what was once widely viewed as an invasion of civil liberties is now getting nary a raised eyebrow. And then the next phase begins... This is what I mean about civil liberties being chipped away a little at a time, so no one really takes notice.

Its a slippery slope and there is no going back up hill once you start down. Sure a system like this is convenient. But ask youself is the short-term convenience really worth it when you look at the bigger picture?

LB

Laughing Boy wrote:
] Call me crazy... but my highschool had I think a magstripe or
] barcode reader for scanning student photo IDs. It seemed to
] work really well at keeping track of who bought what in the
] cafeteria without conjuring scary Orwellian "Big Brother"
] images. I fail to see why a biometric system is necessary in
] a school cafeteria.
]
] Moral of the story... your civil liberties are not taken away
] in one foul swoop - they are chipped away little by little so
] not enough people notice to raise any red flags with a large
] percentage of the population.

I'm not sure exactly how to respond to this one.. I'm not so sure this is a problem.

I am of the opinion that biometric authentication and tracking systems are going to become more common, if only because the technology is starting to get cheap and work properly. Many of us have dealt with hand scanners, as they are pretty common in high security data-centers. They are rarely used though, because they take forever, and fail two out of three times. Aside from those technical flaws which relegate the scanners to wall flower duty, I don't see a problem with them.

In the case of authentication, something-you-know coupled with something-you-are is much stronger then something-you-have schemes. We will see more of that. In the case of tracking, it simply removes the requirement of a token. Kids frequently loose things, so its only fitting this winds up getting used in schools.

I don't really understand why everyone gets so worked up over the application of biometrics.. Maybe I'm missing something. This isn't facial recognition profiling, or something like that. This is just trying to eliminate a physical token.

I'm not sure what civil liberties are being chipped away at here.. "Show me your papers" and "Show me your hand", only you can't get yourself a fake hand. The possible problems lie in who is doing the asking, and what for. In this case, its looks like the same situation as before, the style of asking is just changing.

This is a far cry from having a thumb scanners on some big all knowing network at the door of every bar, coffee house, club, etc.. If the system in question here is just used by the school, to track/authorize school lunches, I don't see it as a problem. If the system gets extended to things beyond that then it may be a problem, but no more so then any other networked id system.

For instance, those magstripe systems you didn't have a problem with. The way most college's use them, I do have a problem with. The systems are insecure, they are tied into everything, and they usually use an SSN for an identifier. Those are more of a problem then this, from the sounds of it. Someone can't steal my thumb and screw up my life without me realizing it.